to feel cheated that you can't actually have it all?

[ChocolateOrangeInASantaHat]

Many moons ago I was educated in a fantastically positive school, where as females we were taught that we could achieve anything a male could achieve and that if we worked hard enough and planned well enough, we could 'have it all' in life.

So now, with my collection of letters after my name, respectable job, 2 usually well-behaved children, lovely husband and a multitude of lists to keep life running smoothly, I'm slowly realising that it doesn't matter how hard I work or how meticulously I plan, unless I steal a bloody tardis I still can't have it all.

Feeling particularly bitter as was up all night with poorly child, who I then left with a relative to not miss work today (=feeling like rubbish mother) and then as I'd had no sleep I was not very productive at work (=also feeling like rubbish employee). Since others at my level are generally male and tend to have stay at home wives, this kind of feeling inadequate at both home and work doesn't tend to occur for them.

Honestly feeling like I should advise daughter to either:
a) marry rich man, get good prenup and focus on children/household or
b) be career driven and marry man who is happy to stay at home and focus on children/household.

AIBU to feel cheated that I can't 'have it all'? (NB in case lost in my sleep-deprivedness this is a --partially- tongue-in-cheek AIBU)

[loiner45]

IMO I have had it all - just not all at the same time. I was main carer while the DC were small and put my career on hold - I did use that time at home to study for a career change (and yes it did involve writing essays at 2am). I'm now 60, divorced with adult DC and a career (academic) that I love. I know I could, at this point, go for promotion, take on more responsibility - "fly" in some people's eyes - but I see colleagues buckling under the stress of the high flying jobs, a friend who has a senior management job is close to the edge of a breakdown. I earn enough to pay the bills and help the DC through Uni, I haven't been away on holiday for 3 yrs, I use my holiday to do things in the house that I can't afford to pay others to do - but I have enough of everything. I would rather get the balance right and have a life. I would have been a lousy mother to my dc had I been a SAHM all their childhood as I would have been very frustrated not to be working, but work has never been more important than my own well being, which includes the quality of my relationships.

By having had it all I mean

• a loving relationship (for many years, not negated by the the fact he met someone else and left, it was good for a long time)
  
• children who are in a good relationship with me and are moving to independence
  
• a career I totally love
  
• good friends
  
• a home I can afford to run
  
• my health
  

but as I say - not all of those at the same time

[ExitPursuedByABear]

I agree loiner. I've had it all but not at the same time. And thank fuck for that.

[Greengrow]

I didn't say women and men have to earn a lot of money, just that it is much easier to "have it all" in a marriage if you earn more than or the same as your other half and work full time. However no need to turn down a lot of money - it can mean you get more time with your children. I get to school concerts and the like including one tonight because I own and decide my work and hours rather than working for someone else and I won't be in the position of the person above whose marriage is breaking up and doesn't work where financially women are often left high and dry.

I have probably spent more time with my children than any stay at home other on here simply because I am in year 30 of being a mother and have had five children so if we are keeping a tally on face time with a child I probably win.

I was once interviewed by someone doing a series of interviews with relatively successful working mothers. She said those of us who were happy and successful tended to be those who were content - who could do a good enough job at home and at work and then close the door on work or home satisfied and move on to the next thing. The perfectionists who want to turn out the perfect child and the perfect work are never happy. So I think a lot of it is just about positive mental attitude and not glorifying the school run - if instead you can realise most of the time it's pretty boring but quite nice once a blue moon to pick children up from work then working full time is fine. You realise it's a massive blessing you miss seeing your child when it's at its worst and dealing with school traffic. Roll on the years and once your children are in jobs as some of mine now are the things we have in common include work. One called several times today involved in something work related. If I had spent 20 years at home cleaning I am not sure I would be as helpful to her in terms of complex legal stuff.

[loiner45]

Balance, compromise and sacrifice are the three words that come to mind

• I personally think a balanced life is healthier than pursuing one goal - either to be a high flying executive or the perfect SAHM
  
• I have had to compromise, weigh up when to fight for things and when to let someone else get their way, not expect things always to work for me at the expense of others
  
• sacrifice in that I had to sacrifice career progression to stay at home with my dc, and I sacrificed time with them when I then was working hard to kick start my career again. It is simply not possible for anyone to 'have it all' and I never believed it was. I have made a decision not to look for a new relationship post divorce because my life is actually 'full' ATM with the career and supporting the DC as they go off to Uni. I know my own limits and try to work within them for balance. This is actually the happiest I've been for decades because I have no frustrations around what I want to be doing with my life - I'm doing exactly what I want to be doing .
  

I do agonise over some choices, of course I do, because choosing one course of action will close down opportunities in another part of my life, but I don't agonise over the fact that I have to make choices - we all have to make choices, it can't be avoided can it?

[minipie]

For me it comes down to what are the alternatives and would I prefer any of them.

I work 4 days often 5 in reality in a bloody demanding job. I have a toddler and a baby on the way and since DH's hours are longer (and he earns more), I am also the primary/default carer, although DH does a lot.

Yes I am often exhausted and feel I am not doing either thing "fully" or as well as I could.

But would I actually want to be a full time SAHM? No. Would I want to be the primary earner while DH was a SAHD? No.

So I don't actually want either of the alternatives. Hence, I don't feel cheated and I'm mostly pretty happy with my lot. I spend about half my waking time with DD/DH and about half at work, and that works for me.

I never believed it was going to be possible to "have it all" in the sense of being able to see my DC all day and go to work. Surely nobody thought that?

[GreenPetal94]

I work 70% in a management role and have 2 boys aged 11 and 13. I have fought hard to stay in part-time hours the last 13 years, but I do feel I have a good work life balance.

But that doesn't mean I have it all. But what would that look like? Would it be appealing?

[Enjoyingmycoffee1981]

"Having it all". Means something to different to everyone.


To me, 'having it all' means to have happy settled children, a good strong marriage and to be healthy and fit.

I am a SAHM, my children are very settled and happy, my DH have a great marriage and I work out hard 3x a week. I feel that as I have those three features of what I define as 'having it all', I therefore believe I do genuinely 'have it all'

[SilentAllTheseYears]

I have it all - a part time job, time to spend with my children and take them to activities and time for myself.

The flip side is, we are as poor as the proverbial church mouse, I have nothing to do but housework in my time for myself as I can't afford it and we have to have only second hand things and scrimp and save.
I'm happier then when I was earning 4 times as much as I get now.

[Beautifulbabyboy]

Wow greengrow... you cannot possibly work full time and spend as much time with ALL your children as a SAHP... It's not physically possible. You can't add your time up over 5 kids.... It doesn't work like that. and for the record I spoke to my mum a SAHP 3 times today and twice yesterday, just because she is ace.

[Enjoyingmycoffee1981]

Greengrow, an odd post. You try to create the image that you are being very even handed on the matter, and what suits one would not suit another. However the undercurrent is undoubtedly... you are a better mother if you work. Needless to say, I think that is bullshit!

Your comment that doing the school run once in a blue moon is actually a "massive blessing" is a massive blessing to you, rather than a massive blessing per se. For many others, myself included, the school run is actually quite an important time for pointless chatting with your children, hearing about their day, and yep, you do some times have them "at their worst" but that is what being a parent is, taking the good with the bad.


One called several times today involved in something work related. If I had spent 20 years at home cleaning I am not sure I would be as helpful to her in terms of complex legal stuff.

I am sure you wouldn't be as helpful to her in terms of complex legal stuff if you hadn't of worked, but be honest... How often have you been useful to her in terms of complex legal stuff?

[tallskinnylatte]

What I find is that it's not so much wanting to having it all as wanting to survive it all. And often I feel like I'm failing at everything and life would be easier all round if I wasn't here. DH is nicer than me and doesn't shout. I'm not going to do anything daft like that- they would miss me so I'm just going to weep over the laptop for a while. I'm not sure I'd be happier as a SAHM - when work's good it's great but I'm self employed and there is just no escape, the house is a tip, we have no sex life, my cooking skills have gone awol as I just burn or overcook everything. DD doesn't sleep brilliantly either and even when she sleeps I often lie awake waiting for her to wake up etc. From the outside it looks like I'm doing ok but actually I'm just a bit shit at everything.

[aprilanne]

if you mean you can,t have a full time job and be a full time mother then you are correct .you can,t .you have to think .A whats more important .work/children ..or B can you afford to give up work if not then its not the end of the world .my mum worked full time since i was a toddler early 70,s .i have always been a full time mother .i am happy with my choice .but i can never mind of thinking my mum neglected me .we can only do our best .that,s it

[Greengrow]

There is no reason women cannot have what men have which is usually full time work and nice family times too. Most of us manage that perfectly well. Some people are just not able to even tie a shoe lace or get up on time to get children to school though and clearly could not cope well even if they just had the children or just had the job.

The main thing is not to be a perfectionist and therein lies the route to unhappiness. Being on the whole satisfied with what you are doing whether you are male or female and at home or work tends to make people happier.

(On the daughter and legal things both daughters are lawyers as I am and the one who lives at home does talk to me about legal issues every day several times and I like it just as my father talked to my siblings about psychiatry. I suspect adult children are grateful their mother can pay their university fees and help fund their first homes and talk about careers more rather than she martyred herself to the housework and was abandoned impoverished with no job when her husband runs off with his secretary in his 40s. She is celebrating tonight as she just heard she got her perfect next job).

Whether men or women work or not what tends to make people happy is in my view:

1. Getting enough sleep.
   
2. Eating healthy good foods - not junk, not alcohol, not chocolate etc
   
3. Getting outside.
   
4. moving/walking/cycling or other exercise
   
5. Time alone to think in silence
   

These things raise the balance of seratonin in your brain. The trouble with having a small baby except for the beta endorphin rush you get when your breastmilk lets down which does indeed make you happy, is you tend not to get enough sleep at all and probably don't eat very well either so it's a very hard phase whether you were me with a 3 week old baby at home and I back at full time work or you're at home all the time with it. it is a phase. It passes. They get older and it gets a lot easier.

[EssexMummy123]

Greengrow, the idea of having it all or a good work/life balance isn't just work/motherhood. With five children and many hours spent working how do you manage to fit in any hobbies / me time / time with friends etc

[Romann]

Poor op I totally sympathise. Ime it gets much better when the kids are older. Not because they don't have problems or need you to taxi them around or whatever, but because you get to sleep all night!!

My best advice would be as much as possible to pay other people to do stuff that doesn't require your attention. Laundry, cleaning, cooking (we have someone come in once a week to make a whole load of dinners for the freezer, she charges per hour for cooking (about 20 quid, and spends about 3 hours) and I buy the ingredients). Best is to get a nanny/housekeeper, pref with a drivers licence. This is money really well spent when your kids are small even if you have to cut down on everything else, if you can afford it.

By the way, you do have it all actually. Try to ditch the impostor syndrome. I bet you are at least as good at your job as all those blokes, and your children love you.

I read quite a good self help book called '168 hours, you have more time than you think' with suggestions for planning that made me feel better about my own set up. You also need to make your husband get involved in all the planning if he's not.

(As an aside - one of my girlfriends called me the other day to ask me whether my husband would like to play tennis with her husband. I told her that planning playdates for 3 children was already enough for me and they could fix their own tennis! I see a lot of husbands being really dependent, and wives running around accommodating them like some kind of unpaid ubersecretaries).

[ExitPursuedByABear]

Dogs and horses.

[shortaris1]

It looks EXHAUSTING trying to have it all. For me the solution is to be childfree. Not so I can focus on a career but so I can enjoy my friends, hobbies and me time. A different viewpoint I guess but yes, having it all is different things to different people

[ExitPursuedByABear]

Isn't it just.

[Fannydabbydozey]

"It is how you act I think. I look the same as pre babies. I rarely mention babies or children unless asked even though I returned really early. I think once people know your serious they take you serious. I will still go to anything at any time and if something is arranged I will go."

Wow. I think that's really, really sad.

[Romann]

I've hardly ever actually felt discriminated against for having kids. Only with one particular boss who also bullied me for being pregnant, although I think that was nothing to do with me and just because he was frustrated that his 2nd, much younger, wife wanted children and he didn't and had 2 adult dcs already. But that was 11 years ago and it's not been repeated.

It certainly has never occurred to me that I shouldn't mention my children. In fact they sometimes come to work with me in the holidays. I do often leave early for school things, but I also stay late if I need to and travel for work too, so I don't think I come across as a slacker!

I'm actually quite proud of managing my career and motherhood and I admire other working mothers too as I know how complicated their lives are. We are awesome planners and high achievers. (That's not meant to be a dig at sahms btw, just that being a sahm is not my experience so I don't have much of a view on what that's like).

[aliciaj]

Why fanny? I have 4 full days and nights with the children (I do full time hours over 3 days) and dh is here every day and night so we have more family time than most, but when I am at worl its work, and I walk out switch off and dont mention work at home.

[AngelsOnHigh]

You can have it all. Just not at the same time.

[tanukiton]

I think having it all means different things to different people.
I don't want to go to anything at anytime. I'd rather go to somethings sometimes. Each to their own.
I go mad just being a SAHM and bonkers if I go full time. My ideal schedule is earning 3 weeks of the month and having the rest to do family and me stuff. I am lucky that I am in a position I can consider this type of schedule. So in that way I am having it all or at least planning to have it all

[tumbletumble]

I feel lucky compared to my DH. He works full time in a stressful job, I work part time (0.5 FTE) in a less stressful but still professional, well-respected job. We both enjoy our jobs but I'm the one who gets to spend more time with the DC. Last week he was abroad with work and missed DS2's nativity play. Yes I do more housework, but I also get more free time for myself (on my days off - now that the DC are all at school).

I guess I don't have it all, in that DH earns a lot more than me (even though we were earning the same amount pre-DC), but I feel that I have a better work-life balance.

[jaffajiffy]

Another one here who thinks the focus should be on the men. We need a culture where, oh look, DH, it's your child too, so you do 50%. At first that 50% doesn't include breastfeeding, fine, but you can do laundry, admin, recycling, cooking, etc. I have a DH who is clueless practically and I mean clueless. Wrestling our arrangements into 50:50 was hard and counterintuitive for both of us (far easier for me to run the house and the childcare than him) but he agreed with the principle so had to work at it, working through rows and resentments to arrive at our 50:50. We would have divorced had I thought he wasnt committed to the principle. I would love to legislate men doing a year of childcare so a child could potentially have one year of mum and one of dad. Would sort out so many things. And people who cite commuting as a reason for unequality don't get my patience. Move jobs or house so you can both contribute to your home life equally. Ask hard questions why you can't, simply, share the load.