To be a bit shocked by this court ruling?

[Wowthishurtsalot]

Just read in the daily fail that a court has ruled bus companies have no right to make pushchair users move from the wheelchair spaces on buses

Can anyone find this in a better source?

why can't you use your CB or CTC"s
??
surely you could pay for a taxi or a car our of that,

I only have a car because of my disability, my husband learnt to drive specially when my allowance came through as until then we could not afford it. I relied on others for lifts, or apart from that, pretty much didnt leave the house for 18months. So no, it is not a regular cost that everyone has, it is something that i need

I'm not sure of your point re DLA, and considering you googled it, surprised you didnt see that it hasnt been DLA since spring 2013.

Sam, my other payments are all allocated elsewhere.

Oh, and i can make use of it, just not on my own.

ahh
but so are a lot of disabled peoples
yet they have to use it for taxi's??

and where are these magical WC taxi's ??
the person I care for has a large WC + a seating system
they would not be able to fit in most taxis
your child and buggy would..

Sorry sam, i'm confused, are you talking to me or justmummy?

I believe Samcro is addressing me.

CB and CTC are both means tested and our household doesn't receive either.

And BeyondTheTreelights yes you may need petrol for reasons others don't, but that doesn't mean it is not a regular household expense.

...and re 'the buggy and child would fit in most taxis' how is it fair or safe to ask a mother to travel in a taxi with her child that does not have a car seat?

And Samcro, seeing as I am being forced to defend mothers and children here, when I am of a balanced opinion...

CB and CTC are intended to cover costs of a child's normal raising. DLA (or whatever it may be called now) is intended for 'additional costs' which funding an alternative to public transport is!

alteregonumber1... does your child have a pram-type wheelchair? If so, how would you feel if you were asked to leave for a more conventional wheelchair user? With the argument that mothers of 16 month olds push their buggies... what is the difference? (And I am not of this viewpoint, but was given the excuse that my 6 year old daughter in her small wheelchair could be pushed as it 'isn't as heavy' as the self propelling wheelchair that a gentleman was using when he boarded a bus I was already on)

I digress back to my original point that first come first served would solve this issue reasonable well as I, and most people I know, would happily vacate a space for a wheelchair user.

It also solves the 'who is more important than who' issue. As a pp mentioned, what if a wheelchair space is occupied by one wheelchair user and another wishes to board? Does it come down to sub-priorities of whose disability is more deserving? No, the second wheelchair user will wait for another bus, if they can do so in this situation, then surely it is not impossible for them to wait in the case of a pram in place? (Although most would accept, that other than in rare cases which get hyped by media so people believe it is an everyday occurence it is commonplace that this would not happen)

The same would apply in the situation of a second pram user waiting on another bus if their is already a pram (or wheelchair) in place.

Perhaps the nail on the head is that this really is a non-issue, highlighted only by a few rare cases of utter selfishness.

If the child is disabled, they are entitled to the wheelchair space regardless of how old they are. The pushchair is a wheelchair to them.

one last thing...

"...and re 'the buggy and child would fit in most taxis' how is it fair or safe to ask a mother to travel in a taxi with her child that does not have a car seat?"

to add to the problem of finding a taxi that can accommodate a wheelchair, my children also need carseats.

Again, clearly forgetting that some disabled people are parents too.

justmummyof2, there are disabled people who don't understand waiting and may become very distressed by it. Why is their discomfort less important than a newborn and mother?

A baby is a lifestyle choice. Being disabled is not.
I would happily collapse my pram if I could or get off & wait for the next bus.

I have not stated once that disabled people are less important. And I understand that waiting is difficult for some disabled people... but what if the space is taken by a wheelchair user already? Then they have no choice but to wait in that scenario.

I think some people are taking parts of posts and picking them apart, fair enough, but the issue is debatable as a whole and that is what I have tried to put across.

No I 'clearly' haven't forgotten that some parents are disabled too! Simply asking whether exterior factors should form part of a debate has turned people here into ravers adding more and more obstacles to their posts in defence of something I haven't even argued. I hate to think how many times I have stressed that I was not suggesting every journey should be taken by taxi as no one seems to listen... they just seem to prefer arguing invalid points.

If you need a wheelchair and carseats to take your children in a taxi, surely the inconvenience is about the same as being in a wheelchair boarding a bus with dc in prams?

I will clarify, for a last time, my point (using an example of how unfair and unjust some situations could be -and befpre people get irate, I am sure that situations could be as difficult for someone in a wheelchair, especially disabled parents with dc)

A mother and an ill baby in a pram, are on a bus to a hospital appointment. On gets a person in a wheelchair going into town to do their shopping.

Who in this instance takes priority? What happens?

a. Mother and child get off and allow the wheelchair user on.
-possibly late for the hospital appointment

b. Wheelchair user waits for another bus.
-a bit disgruntled at waiting.

c. A full blown priority argument ensues.

• both unhappy

My point as I have tried to stress is that FIRST COME FIRST SERVED would be fair enough, as in majority of cases, the outside factors don't get brought up, and a mother will usually fold a pram or move for a wheelchair user

First come first served isn't fair enough. It denies those with disabilities equality of opportunity. I spend quite a lot of time arguing this on Metro on Facebook with people who don't seem to understand the concept.
Disability is a protected characteristic. Parenthood isn't.

You don't need to consider outside factors. Its a wheelchair space. Wheelchairs have priority. If you are not prepared to move your pram or buggy (for whatever reason), don't get on the bus.

Once you are on the bus you are entitled to be there and the person at the bus stop is less entitled - first come, first served.

But your right to be on the bus does not extend to a right to put yourself or your buggy or your luggage in the wheelchair space. The only priority over a wheelchair user is another wheelchair user who is already there.

In fact of the bus is crowded you may have to fold so as not to take up mute than your share of the standing space, or so as not to block the aisles.

• more not mute

Exactly Andrew

You're entitled to be on the bus but not to deny wheelchair users the use of the wheelchair space.

no I was talking to justmummyof2
but I see she is now writing more made up scenarios...
at the end of the day a
wheelchair space should always be for a wheelchair/sn buggy

Scenarios always seem to involve ill baby and healthy wheelchair user. Surely the other way around is just as likely?

I've already said. In the tiny, tiny, minuscule chance another wheelchair needed the space, i would calmy chat to them (well, in reality send my dh to speak to them as i couldnt get out of the space fast enough) and do what i could if i were there first. Be that folding my chair if i were able to that day, getting off, or just apologising that i was unable to move and had to be somewhere. I would not be annoyed if I was the one left waiting in this very, very unlikely scenario.

If it were a sn buggy, I would assume that it would take priority over the 'normal' pushchair spaces if it did not need to be against the backrest? (My buses have both pushchair and wheelchair spaces) so those parents should then have to move, as they would have to if they were in the wheelchair space. There is room for two or three buggies in the pram section, not all parents would have to fold.

If there were no pushchair spaces, see my points above for a wheelchair. Because once more a sn buggy is a wheelchair.