to find onlookers infuriating.

[Unclearpath]

I'm still reeling from an earlier event, so my emotions may be running high.

I'm just so angry that so many unacceptable incidents occur in public and no one steps in to help.

I've just been followed back to my car and verbally abused while holding my child because I stood up to group of people- legally adults but clearly children- who kicked off and began screaming at a shop assistant- because she asked them not to eat another food chains food on their premises. The diner was sat under a sign that reiterated this. Not one other person stood up for her and the management, when finally arrived, did not do enough to protect his staff member as far as I'm concerned. I also let rip to him privately I his office after, I was disgusted. There were plenty of other people who just sat and gawped as this poor women cowered in the corner being aggressively shouted at.

Several people passed my child and I on the way back to the car- did one person stop to show support given the gang of loud and abusive people following us? Did they hell.

How can you just walk past it. I hate confrontation, I hate injustice even more. I've seen it so many times. Fights erupting and women being hit by their husbands for example. And yet no one helps. I understand sometimes it's not safe, so then call the bloody police at least.

Rant over.

I absolutely did not 'ramp up the volume'

I moved in front of her, put my arm around her back /her waist and moved her out of the corner and into the kitchen area out back. I didn't go in guns blazing, I didn't shout. ..I simply walked over, and I believe my exact words were "Okay, I'm sorry. But I absolutely will not allow you to speak to her like this" I was firm, and moved her. I then went back to finishing my food while the manager pathetically attempted to manage the situation, and left a short while later, the group were lingering outside and followed me the several yards to my car, which was under cctv and conveniently parked on an end space that stepped right onto the path, visible from the diner window. It was busy, with it being busy with shoppers. Several people looked straight at me while I walked back to my car, while the vile group shouted about how I was such a snobby bitch, and other disgusting things like hoping we die in a car crash on the way home.

And I know I'm not a trained firefighter. . I understand that the risk of losing my own life in that situation is far higher than saving us all.... but I couldn't live with myself a day more if I ever left a house with a fire knowing there were children upstairs. I'd rather risk my life and take a chance on the tiny percentage that I manage it.

If your child was upstairs and a fire broke out would you run outside first and wait?

I think the way you respond to your own children in danger is very different to the way you respond in public. "Onlookers" are not kin.

I think you're wonderful OP. Our fellow human beings deserve our help and support.
I was once out in Norwich and saw an elderly woman lying prone on the ground. She was very respectably dressed (not that it should matter) and her shopping was scattered all around, some oranges had rolled quite far from the spot. Before I could get to her, I saw several people actually STEP OVER her to get past, and some kicked the oranges out of the way. I ran up and put my coat over her, calling out to passers-by to call an ambulance. Many just looked at me as if I were mad. Luckily a shop assistant who'd seen it all ran out from Jarrold's and then rushed off to telephone for the ambulance. (No mobile phones in those days!) The lady later died; I read the article in the Evening News.
How can folk be so bloody callous? There wasn't any danger involved. But all they felt was just chilly indifference.

Only read first page of this OP but I completely agree with you and am appalled by some of the comments. You are setting a great example to your child. My Dad always taught me to stand up when someone else was in trouble as otherwise, 'the scummy people win' and he was right. If other people had supported you the arseholes would have thought twice about behaving like that in future. If arseholes knew that others would stand up to them, and be supported in doing so, they would quickly stop being anti social. All you onlookers are responsible for society going down the crapper. Arseholes know they can get away with asreholeree.

My dad always stood up to people and for people despite being small and weak. Once, as an old man, he told a group of youths beating up a women to pack it in and go away. And they did. It doesn't make the news when things like this happen, only when it goes wrong. The fear of intervening far outweighs the risk. The cost of non action is a less safe society for all of us.

Cailin, your training told you to call the police because the trainers don't want to get sued.
Showy, that research does not show that it is human nature not to get involved. It could equally be, and I believe it is, that people are cultured Into not getting involved.

Showy oh I agree, but I don't think that "not my blood, not my problem" should be an excuse.

The children the trainer referred to would be the children I am paid to care for. And even if they weren't, I would never, ever leave anyone in danger like that.

I sure as hell hope anyone looking after my child feels the same. Else you shouldn't be in the job as far as I'm concerned.

The posters who disagree, how do you all feel about the wonderfully courageous young woman who lost her life after standing up to a group of men harassing young girls? They later attacked her after the initial incident.

www.buzzfeed.com/davidmack/vale-tugce-albayrak?s=mobile

Lillieshill

"All you onlookers are responsible for society going down the crapper."

Have you even considered that that some people don't get involved because they weren't so lucky as to come out of these situations as well as you (or the OP) did?

Again, looking after children is different. They are your responsibility. Did you see what I said about how onlookers behave (the original question) and how it's hardwired? That's it's normal to not involve yourself. Nobody is making excuses or spineless or cowardly. Those who intervene are the minority, regardless of how people think they might behave.

I tried to be very honest on here. I'd love to be one of those people who could say 'I never stand by' but I am a slave to my own psychology and I don't like it but I'm not a coward.

Just adding that in regard to water rescue it is very very dangerous to attempt to rescue someone.

I have done some training in this area and by attempting to rescue someone the outcome is often more casualties. It is a lot more difficult that people think it is even for a strong swimmer.

I have also watched a truly horrific video where a child died due to onlookers nearly being swept away trying to help and attention being diverted from the child to them. The child was then hit by debris and swept away.

It's obvious why people don't intervene. They fear for their personal safety generally. In particular it's even riskier to intervene if you have small kids with you. You intervened, your decision but you risked your own safety by doing so. I often wonder why people think calling an angry/aggressive person on their behaviour will improve things. They will just get angrier and more aggressive.

I moved in front of her, put my arm around her back /her waist and moved her out of the corner and into the kitchen area out back.

That is a much different scenario than your original post implied. I'd say in that situation you acted correctly. The manager should have called the police in the first place instead of pussy footing around it.

I think most people would take a much, much bigger risk for a child than they would for an adult. Even from a biological standpoint, we're hard wired to protect small children. Their faces are proportionally built to trigger protective instincts.

I would never leave my child or any child under my care in a burning building, I'd die first. But, logically, that's a terrible way to train people because it adds to the body count. A good example is during 9/11, the fire fighters and police were called back out of the building because it was unstable. They refused orders and pressed on, they were admiral heroes and they died bravely, but they still died and so did the people they were trying to save. Had they listened they'd be alive, and the people that they couldn't save would still be dead. The training you receive is designed off logic to keep you from adding to the list of casualties.

Yes, to echo wish rescue swimming is not even feasible for trained swimmers sometimes. You need the proper equipment. You can't just jump in and pull a person out without it. There's currents, under currents, a whole list of variables that makes survivability hard just on your own, let alone dragging an inexperienced swimmer who's likely panicking out. Not to mention drowning people are dangerous in and of themselves. Instincts take over and they want to cling onto anything that gives them air, which often means pushing you under.

Well, there you go, then. Look after yourself. Let everybody drown and let everybody die. Just look after number 1.

Gives me a thought, though. Next time I see an adult in trouble, I'll give them a quick quiz. And, if they're a look after No1 type, I'll walk off and leave them to it.

I'd have filmed the event then posted it on the internet.

The offending parties would have looked like knobs to a potentially very wide audience and for ever more.

Well, there you go, then. Look after yourself. Let everybody drown and let everybody die. Just look after number 1.

Uhm.. no one said that. Moreover it's very naive to think you're "letting" someone die, when you have no control over the outcome in the first place.

All you're doing by impulsively jumping into a river after someone is adding to the number of bodies they need to fish out. Water rescue and fire rescues are very equipment dependent.

To put this in perspective:

Doing nothing - a person drowns.
Stupidly jumping in with no training or experience - a person still drowns, and now you did too. You accomplished nothing but creating another funeral expense and leaving your own family behind.

You're not invincible. You're not superman. Life is not a Hollywood movie. Reality will never match your daydream scenarios.

You cannot physically save a drowning person without the proper equipment and sometimes even the proper team. You cannot physically save a person from a burning building without a way to breath oxygen. As much as you want to do something, your body has limits.

"I'd have filmed the event then posted it on the internet."

Why? I'd have hated what happened to me to be filmed to go on the internet.

Filming to show to the police would possibly have helped, but unless it is to identify the attackers or to try and find other witnesses, I can't see the point of putting something like that on the internet. And in that situation, let the police put it out there.

It just opens it up to trolls to laugh at and the perpetrators aren't likely to see it or feel ashamed of themselves if they did.

If they can abuse a woman cowering in a corner and then follow a woman to her car and shout abuse at her in real life they are more likely to find a video of themselves on the internet doing all of that funny rather than shaming.

You did an admirable thing, Ulcer but you could have easily ended up a dead hero.

Would be rescuers die all the time. Look at Cornwall. There are endless stories about people dying attempting to rescue dogs who climbed out of the water unaided.

The point is, heroes are heroes and look after number 1 cowards are just that.

I know which one I'd rather be. You look in your own mirrors.

I would help, but not at risk to myself. If I felt Id be at risk Id go around the corner and call the police. I hear of situations and often wonder well, if people didn't want to help then why not call the police? Is it too much trouble?

Reminds me of that case several years ago now when a woman was raped and dumped on the pavement..cried and screamed for help, passersby including people driving past all had a good look, but avoided her. I think some people are just wired differently in that if they see another in danger the fight instinct kicks in before the flight instinct, and they automatically jump in to assist. But Im not going to knock anyone like that because without them this world would be even more dangerous than it is and all the "Id never jump in'ers" would be mightily glad if someone did jump in should they find themselves endangered; even if they themselves would turn a blind eye and scuttle off when seeing another in danger

But the point is that if we are wired to cope with situations that evoke these flight or fight responses, then we are so subconsciously, and no one is actively deciding to "turn a blind eye and scuttle off".

It's a psychological phenomenon, not a decision.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bystander_effect
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fight-or-flight_response

I have not applied the we to all - which is why I said 'some' - since it very clearly is not the case

Well done OP. Society absolutely needs more people like you. Surprised at you getting such a hard time from some. There was a thread recently where a woman physically intervened to stop a group attacking one person. She had her DC with her (under 10 iirc) and she was (rightly) commended. Not sure why this has gone another way.

My dad once saved a young man from drowning. I was there. He didn't really see any other option. We were in a secluded place and no chance of any emergency services getting there before he drowned. I suppose it could have gone wrong but in that moment he couldn't sit and watch someone die. Seems many people could nowadays.