i have decided that i really hate nurseries/preschools and I don't know what to do

[turquoiseseasandgoldensands]

So, at 3.5 I finally send my son to a nursery/preschool, because he said he wanted to go, and he said he wanted to play with lots of children and because he was getting bored of me and I thought he needed more. I had been a SAHM and he hadn't been to nurseries or child care - and of course I had been told that I was being unfair not sending him to nursery since he was about 18 months and I had completely ignored that but at 3.5 he was definitely ready, intellectually and emotionally, to spend time away from me and he skipped into nursery the first day barely able to contain his excitement.

However. Since starting nursery (and we are on the second already, the first having been a nightmare, and both have "outstanding" rankings) the following has happened:

• he is frequently stressed around the days he goes in
• his behaviour has completely deteriorated
• his verbal skills are worse - his speech isn't as clear or confident and he gets verb endings wrong whereas he didn't before
• he appears to be learning very little
• he used to be able to play really well, for long periods of time, but because of the usual approach of nurseries to time use of toys so that the children learn to "share" and the constant movement from one activity to another, he isn't able to get into the groove (so to speak) at nursery, and at home he hasn't been able to settle into the groove either and no longer seems to be able to concentrate on his activities for very long unless I am with him.

The nursery he is at thinks he is doing very well and that there are no problems whatsoever and that he is thriving. What???!!!

I have looked round a lot of nurseries and have asked and continue to ask a lot of indepth questions and I have a pretty clear idea about what goes on in the nurseries, most of them (all of them so far) and I am truly p*ed off. He wants to spend time with other children and is ready to learn in a structured environment to the extent it is age appropriate and he was so keen to be independent etc. This is what I want to. But there is nothing available that I can find and I feel he is being damaged where he is, which to be fair is a much better nursery than most.

Research waldorf education. I think it might suit you.

Jeezus christ OP if you think your son is being psychologically damaged by nursery and has selective mutism as a result of the stress of attending nursery, then don't send him

Both my kids loved nursery; the workers become valued friends. I have never questioned their mortives for becoming nursery workers; and never doubted that it was less than a positive experience for both my dc. So its certainly not true that 'nurseries are psychologically damaging'

if it doesnt suit your son, and you are a SAH, what the hell are you playing at?

Not sure if the op is genuine. What parent would continue sending her child to a nursery that she felt was "damaging" to both his development and self-esteem when being a sahm you have no need to do so??

Perhaps the type of parent who has seen the press reports over the last year or so about nursery improving school readiness who wants to do the best to prepare her child but her gut instincts are different to the current band wagon.

Its perfectly acceptable to just not like nurseries as a thing just as its perfectly acceptable to love them the same as any thing. Its unfortunate that child care settings due to there nature are emotive subjects

I don't think, though, that it is acceptable to call into question the motives of all nursery workers or accuse nurseries in general of causing psychological damage; just because you are too flaky to make your own decisions

"It's a phase that needs gently ironing out!"

It isn't at all. It's a normal part of language development and will pass on its own without any need for ironing out, gentle or otherwise.

I have sent my DC to wonderful nurseries and preschools. I truly believe that. I have used childminders who are also wonderful. You are coming across a bit as if you don't believe those sorts of environments exist anywhere, even if you haven't found them. There's a world of difference between good quality and poor quality childcare, and that's what the studies back up.

You're the expert on your own child, I hold very firmly to that, but also "it takes a village" and you need to trust that sometimes what other people have to tell you about typical development etc. is correct and people who work with small children day in day out have a lot of wisdom gained through experience. You'd be mad to ignore it all in a blanket ban because you're not a fan of nurseries.

Which is cool, btw - some people really don't agree with formal education so young, or childcare for under 5s, or whatever, and arrange their lives accordingly. You sound like you don't. So it's curious you haven't found the sort of preschool/playgroup/childcare you prefer for your DC.

The balance of probability is that a typical 3 year old (and I have one who's pretty verbally advanced too, but can muddles some verb endings) is just undergoing a transitional phase adjusting to a new environment, and acting out at home where they feel secure enough to do so. The phase will pass, and if the setting staff say your DS is happy when there, then I'd stick with it. Do keep an open mind about how the setting's systems work and be in partnership with them - that's probably the best thing you can do throughout your DCs school/education life, tbh.

Personally I have found school life WAY more of a shock to the system than preschool childcare in terms of involvement and control, so if you're not intending on home educating you need to be prepared for this!

I adore my childrens preschool. For me it's all about giving them independence, learning social skills and getting them used to a school-like environment in preparation for school. I am not expecting them to be learning as such (although they do, lots!). Maybe you are expecting too much?

It's great that he is now interacting with other children and in a school like environment so he's getting ready for big school. And the teachers think he is doing great!

Him getting anxious on nursery days is fairly normal I think and I see many children upset in the mornings but all ok once they are through the door. And that shows even more you are doing the right thing putting him in now as if you didn't it could well be worse by time he goes big school.

Could you volunteer to help one morning so you got to see how he's getting on for yourself?

Or perhaps it's just unfortunate that you've picked two not very good preschools and need to try a third!

I have had exactly the same response as the OP (same general response, not the specific language stuff) to the nurseries I've looked round, including one I got my DD a place at but then withdrew from. I felt just like in general they were a terrible idea, and I even know what she means about feeling skeptical about why most of the staff went into the job. This was upsetting because I felt like in the abstract they were a great idea: somewhere to play while mum works with people who like kids... it just didn't seem to match up in the reality. My child is only 2 though.

For what it's worth I came on Mumsnet before looking for people who shared my experience and could only find everyone pro-nursery, so I really don't understand the comments above about Mumsnet being a home for nursery-bashing.

needsAsock

I never said not liking nurseries wasn't acceptable. Some kids aren't suited to nursery. Kids are individuals with different needs and personalities. That's fine.
What I find hard to believe is this part of op
I feel he is being damaged where he is, which to be fair is a much better nursery than most.
If I genuinely felt that I just wouldn't send my child to that nursery, which would be massively difficult for me because I work. Op doesn't work, so how can she leave him somewhere she feels is damaging him when she doesn't even need to? I really don't understand that.

As pp said it's also not acceptable to dismiss all the nurseries in the country and question the motives of all child care workers based on her experience of 2 settings.

CitizenFish, if both your children 'loved' nursery then it may be difficult to comprehend the angst you feel as a parent if your child is not exhibiting such positive behaviour as a result of attending nursery/preschool. I am in a similar predicament to the OP but it's possibly not as good because my 3 year old DD shows a lot of upset, is selectively mute with most adults and i, like the OP have already removed her from one 'outstanding' nursery because she ended up being terrified of the place. This is all 'new' to me as my 7.5 year old DS loved socialising, loved nursery, they loved him- a walk in the park. He didn't exhibit stress of any kind, there was no regression, it was all positive. When it is not such a straight forward experience, it is much harder to manage as you are forced to 'think' about the situation as you naturally want the best for your child and you wonder 'is it the best', all thoughts you don't have to entertain if your child 'fits' and excels in that environment.

For example this morning my DD said she didn't want to go to preschool, she changed her mind after saying she was just cold and then we got to the door of the preschool after a 20 minute walk and she started crying, she had cjanged her mind and wanted fun with me because she loved me and didn't love them etc. The anguish and stress took its toll, I'm a SAHM so I thought, 'this is pointless' and decided to go home, we walked out the gate and then DD wanted to go. She did go in the end but I had to stay a bit as she was clinging on to me. The problem I find is that despite Early years qualifications, there is no effort to help with this stressful scenario, noember of staff is forthcoming with help to intice her into this place. She is wavering not necessarily disinterested but that is not ceased upon- there seems not understanding of the stressed ones. I can see why she's not convinced by me when I say, 'you'll have a good time.'. I took her out of the first nursery as they just wouldn't engage with her. They do here but the angst some of these 2/3 year olds have in seperating from their parents for a period of time is definitely not a major concern of preschools/nurseries I have experienced. It's just seen as a given.

The teachers at her preschool are educated and are kind/nice but there is a real lack of understanding of children IME that aren't bold and chatty as at this age how else does someone connect to such young children if not through 'chat'. I think that also makes the teachers inevitably form a fondness for the confident preschoolers. Only today I overheard my daughter's key worker say to another little girl's mum,'she was 'star of the week' this week, she is so lovely she should be every week!'. This girl is very nice but people are able to see that as she is not selectively mute, she is not shy. My worry is that aswell as the anxiety my child seems to exhibit before and after nursery, her confidence will be bashed by this subtle favouritism so rather than help her self esteem the pre school setting may be damaging it. It is easy to say, 'pull them out then?' but you are definitely made to feel that this is a risky choice when they are 3 and going to start reception in 9 months!

DC1 has SN and didn't speak until aged 3. I ran away from the first nursery she was in (literally! Half way through first induction day!) Of course there have been days when both dc have resisted going. To make out its all bunnies and fluff is incorrect.

But tthe nursery we used did go out of their way to settle anxious kids. It was a very caring/loving environment. The workers came to naming ceremonies/birthdays etc.

Its just daft to fly into such irrational mode and accuse all nurseries of ABC, and all nursery workers of XYZ. Its just not true that nurseries are psychologically damaging, and nurseries workers are...are what?? I cant even fathom what your implication is??

If your child doesn't like it and you don't have to send them, then don't. Or find a nice one, because they do exist. If you don't like the thought of nurseries that is also legitimate reason for not sending your dc. Don't be such a wanker as to insult all nurseries/all nursery staff and all parents that use nurseries. You dont to persuade everyone else to your way of thinking to justify a decision

I really wish op and other posters would spell out this insinuation about nursery workers because I don't understand what it is at all.

Thanks Lonny. Frustrating doesn't even begin to cover it really. I usually just get my head down and do what I can, while accepting that it will never be enough, and that the families we work with need so much more. And the outcomes for both individual children and for society if Early Years education and support services were properly prioritised and funded would be so wonderful...

I don't think anyone's looking to persuade others, just to find people online who do have the same point of view to discuss reactions with in a non-confrontational way. It is you who has a starkly different view to the OP's post and so perhaps should not reply to it. Why shouldn't she voice a (perhaps irrationally worded) worry and see if there are others who feel the same?

You sound like a very good nursery worker Miaowthecat! I wish I could find a nursery populated by people like you.

I'm still in the town I grew up in and several of the nurseries I looked round had staff who had been my classmates at school, whom I know failed school and went into being a nursery nurse as it was one of the easiest qualifications to get, rather than because of any love for the role. Frighteningly many of them were actually the bullies from school.

Not the nursery qualification you say, but they found it one of the easiest jobs to get into, I should have said. I guess that's why you get the disparity. Sometimes you have people working with years of experience / qualifications and sometimes straight out of school with no motive other than not being unemployed.

Why did you send him? It sounds as if your didn't want to do it and have accumulated as much information as possible to back up why he shouldn't be there. Take him out, find other ways for him to socialise with peers, do your own thing and send him to school when you're ready.

Why did you send him?

Perhaps she read all the posts on MN about how children need the social interaction they get in nurseries, how good it is for toddlers to get used to being away from their parents, how great it is for supporting speech development and how much more fun they will have there than at home.

There can be a very strong message from MNers about how children need to be in group childcare from an early age.

tbh, nursery might not be the best environment for him. They still spend a lot of time mixing with younger children.

You may well be better off trying a school-attached pre-school which will have a much more school-like structure and regular daily attendance.

There is no shame in removing your child from an unsuitable environment!

Well said Goldmandra

There can at times though be an equally strong message about how bad Childcare is!

There can be a very strong message from MNers about how children need to be in group childcare from an early age.

We must be reading very different versions of MN. Or just goes to show that different aspects resonate with different people.

Nursery is right for some and not right for others. Some nurseries are good, staffed with committed, loving, dedicated and energetic staff. Some are not. Ditto childminders, ditto nannies.

The reality is that speaking in sweeping generalisations is generally only done to make the poster feel better about their own choice by making others feel worse about theirs.

I have no idea why the OP posted. Or why she has her child at a nursery if she feels the evidence is so compelling not to.

My 16yr old daughter is studying childcare at college, and there are indeed many bullies on the course, who are studying childcare because it's that or health & social care when you don't have the results to take the A level route. Out of the twenty-odd people in her group, she says there are only 3 who have an actual interest in children's care and development :( Very wrong. But I guess that's what you get for chidcare being a minimum wage job. Crazy.

All of them turn into little horrors at 3 so I think you can safely say that's a coincidence too!