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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

I probably am BU, but would this bother anyone else?

256 replies

FedRightUpWithWork · 02/12/2014 20:13

DD goes to a girls only grammar (yr7) there is to be a Christmas disco with the boys grammar years 7 & 8 only. On reading the letter which was sent home it states 'to ensure the enjoyment and safety of the students, we are asking for your support and co-operation. Girls should be modestly dressed. Students arriving unsuitably dressed will be [...] sent home to change.'

This makes me really uncomfortable, and I can't quite verbalise why, I think it's the implication that the way girls dress can cause the boys to misbehave? That at the age of 11 they are being held responsible for how others may act? And who decides what is 'modest'? My DD loves wearing shorts and tights, but they are short so would they be unsuitable, despite no flesh on display? I'm really not explaining myself well, but would it bother anyone else?

OP posts:
SpringBreaker · 02/12/2014 22:34

some of these children may be walking there as a group, if they look a lot older than they are, then there is a risk that they will attract the attention of older boys, men, and people who no matter how wrongly, think the girls look like fair game..

take off your feminist blinkers and see the reality..

I would rather my child not be a victim than be one that i can say "well dont worry it wasnt your fault".. no it would never be her fault, but that wouldnt erase what had happened to her

ChanceyNancy · 02/12/2014 22:34

When I was a young teenage girl , 40+ years ago; we didn't have the exposure to anything much in terms of anything. TV went off sometime after I'd gone to bed (10pm) . Apart from when I got to stay up for the Lunar landing.

So I'm seriously old, and have a 15 year old Daughter (miracle Autumn/Winter baby after years of infertility).

The edict from the school has nothing to do with gym floors or heel height.

Appropriate and modest clothing for the year 7 girls in order to be "safe".

Bollocks. It is not appropriate for anyone outside their teenage years to determine what is appropriate for an eleven-twelve year old to wear

I am completely modest in my dress (now); but I wore hot pants,mini skirts , knee high boots...
It was my era. I don't judge my Daughter's era.
A Girl/Woman should wear what the hell they want (at age 11/12).
I don't think it appropriate for a Teacher, who is likely to be twice their age, to determine what is appropriate.

It's heavy handed and counter-productive.

ShakesBootyFlabWobbles · 02/12/2014 22:39

I disagree fluffling, the letter does not imply sexual safety to me; it is saying that there is a dress code and they'd like co-operation.

Blimey, I can imagine the mumsnet thread about the Daily Fail sadfaces of inappropriately dressed for their age 11 year olds and their mums ranting 'it is their right'. They would take an utter pounding on here.

I've changed my mind OP, I think YABU and you should walk away from this.

bigbluestars · 02/12/2014 22:39

It's exactly the thing I would expect from a girl's only school.

PlumpingUpPartridge · 02/12/2014 22:40

Please ask the PSA to confirm that it never becomes 'unsafe' in countries where women are forced to dress modestly at all times. Rapes never occur in Saudi Arabia or Iran, ever.

Fucking hell.

Hakluyt · 02/12/2014 22:47

Am loving the work of the Professionally Unoffended on this thread.

OP- your instincts are absolute spot on. Blatant victim blaming. Complain- and copy your letter to the ahead and the Chair of Governors.

Tobyjugg · 02/12/2014 22:48

Shakes I think you've hit the nail on the head. I don't think the school isn't so much worried about the lust of 11 and 12 year old boys, rather it's the Daily Fail sadfaces of inappropriately dressed for their age

I don't know how prominent the school is nationally, but I suspect this is why it wants its girls to be modest, to avoid shock horror headlines and scandalised Mummies clutching their pearls.

Tobyjugg · 02/12/2014 22:50

Shit double negative! I think the school isn't so much worried...

FrauHelgaMissMarpleandaChuckle · 02/12/2014 22:51

I would be sending the letter to the local paper.

WD41 · 02/12/2014 22:54

Going against the grain here but I don't see anything wrong with the letter. It's a disco for 11 yo children not grown women. The school thinks parents should ensure their children dress appropriately for their age, what's wrong with that?

There are dress codes in many situations in life. It's a shame it needs to be spelled out to parents really.

Perhaps the word modestly could have been substituted for appropriately, but I expect that would get the same reaction.

ShakesBootyFlabWobbles · 02/12/2014 22:56

Couldn't agree more WD41

TreadmillTiger · 02/12/2014 23:11

Me too WD41 - I'd be pleased to get this letter. It would come in mighty handy if my daughter chose to argue over what was appropriate to wear.

PlumpingUpPartridge · 02/12/2014 23:16

I think that if it had just said 'all students should be modestly dressed' then it would be fine. It's the implication that, if GIRLS (specifically girls, not boys) dress immodestly, the situation will become unsafe and that (further implication) the girls will be responsible for this. Fuck that bollocks.

WD41 · 02/12/2014 23:19

It's a girls school though. A letter to parents of girls.

WD41 · 02/12/2014 23:20

(I went to a girls school and that was how we were always referred to rather than students or pupils)

dailygrowl · 02/12/2014 23:20

YANBU.

They are only in year 7. If THAT is what organisers are worried about, there should be no disco.

This kind of school event (I don't mean the disco, I mean the way it is being handled) is what annoys me a lot about modern day schooling. It's badly handled/managed yet they convince the pupils it's the best thing since sliced bread so that even if you refused to let your offspring go as a protest, your offspring are the ones that are unhappy and not the organisers. PS is this organised by the school's Parents' Association or by teachers? I'd send a strongly worded letter to the teacher in charge with a copy to the principal.

Romann · 02/12/2014 23:21

I think it's really badly written but the sentiment is probably OK. They should have said: "We expect all children to dress appropriately for a disco party for 11 and 12 year olds" or something.

'dress modestly for safety' is quite offensive. If I were you I would point it out, without getting too stroppy, as what they have written is a poor message for young girls. I'd be a bit surprised if many staff at a girls' school actually thought that women are responsible for causing sex crimes against themselves.

MidniteScribbler · 02/12/2014 23:34

It is not appropriate for anyone outside their teenage years to determine what is appropriate for an eleven-twelve year old to wear

People are dictated to about their clothing all of the time. Students wear school uniforms. Corporate office workers are expected to wear suits and ties in many workplaces. Tradespeople wear fluro shirts. Bus drivers wear a uniform. You consider how you dress when you go to church. Every single day when we stand in front of the wardrobe we make a judgement call on what is 'appropriate' to wear to wherever it is we have to go. It's a lesson we all have to learn in life.

WaroftheRoses · 02/12/2014 23:38

The letter doesn't bother me. Year 7 girls do start to wear inappropriate clothes-heels too high or pumps that fall off, skirts too short and tight, cropped tops, ridiculous earrings etc. I would be pleased if my kids' school was keeping an eye on them.

My DD was part of a cheerleading group at in year 6 and as one of their certificates they had to choreograph their own routines, including sorting costume. My DD desperately wanted a costume that was completely inappropriate but apparently 2 other girls were wearing it-think almost a bikini with a bit of frill! Needless to say she got a full leotard! And then told me that the 2 near naked girls had been told they couldn't perform in what they had bought. So thank goodness for the school keeping an eye of things as the parents obviously didn't care about their half naked daughters. Shock

ShakesBootyFlabWobbles · 02/12/2014 23:39

They could say the dress modestly for safety relates to a fire alarm and evacuation; children wearing very little could be unsafe standing outside in the cold in winter in the event of an evacuation, even for a few minutes, whereas someone in jeans/skirt and tights could cope with even though it would be uncomfortable. They could say safety is to prevent ankle injuries for platform or stiletto shoes.
If the school truly thought the dress code was to protect the girls from risks due to visiting boys, why would they even put on this event? And why would the parents of the children in the boys school want them attending an event where their children were so badly thought of and seen as potentially putting other students 'at risk'? I suppose it is for these two reasons that I can't take from the letter that it is insinuating sexual safety in the way others are doing.
But then, if we all thought the same thing, it would make AIBU a dull place.

Tron123 · 02/12/2014 23:44

I Do not think this letter is implying a risk from boys, this is a year 7 disco. I think some of the attire worn by y6 and y7 is wholly age inappropriate and think a letter like this very responsible.

Hakluyt · 02/12/2014 23:59

Only the most skilled of the professionally unoffended could make "girls must be modestly dressed" mean "girls must wear clothes suitable to negotiate a fire escape"! I salute you!

ShakesBootyFlabWobbles · 03/12/2014 00:10

Hakluyt, I can see we have differing opinions but there no need to keep referring to me like that. I just don't read into it what you do. That's all.

KoalaDownUnder · 03/12/2014 00:10

I am mostly gobsmacked that this needs to be spelled out for 11- and 12-year-olds!

I went to the most staid/uptight girls-only Catholic school imaginable. The nuns would have hit the roof if we'd turned up to a school disco in anything even slightly risqué at that age. Then again, nobody would've...maybe at 15, but not 12!

I don't know, OP. YANBU - I do find the wording quite offensive, as it implies some kind of responsibility on children that they don't have. But then again, why was the note necessary?

sykadelic · 03/12/2014 03:44

YABU. I don't see the issue and think you're reading too far into it. Though it specifies girls it's highly unlikely that boys would wear something that flashes their bits but I'm sure they'd be sent home too if they were.

It's a sad state of affairs that "dress appropriately" even needs to be mentioned but some people have no issues with wearing entirely inappropriate things (and as it's a grammar school i'm sure there's probably normally a uniform and they're probably panicking that the freedom of clothes choice + boys = mayhem).

Inappropriate at 12 = cleavage and seeing it's a dance, if your skirt moving about would show underwear, you'd wear something to protect your modesty. You mentioned a skirt and tights, I'm sure that would be fine as long as the skirt was past fingertip length or "touching the ground when kneeling" height, depending on standards for their uniform.

I don't see the issue because my brain doesn't jump there like it seems it does with other posters but sure, make them be more PC and put all students should dress appropriately or will be sent home.