I probably am BU, but would this bother anyone else?

[FedRightUpWithWork]

DD goes to a girls only grammar (yr7) there is to be a Christmas disco with the boys grammar years 7 & 8 only. On reading the letter which was sent home it states 'to ensure the enjoyment and safety of the students, we are asking for your support and co-operation. Girls should be modestly dressed. Students arriving unsuitably dressed will be [...] sent home to change.'

This makes me really uncomfortable, and I can't quite verbalise why, I think it's the implication that the way girls dress can cause the boys to misbehave? That at the age of 11 they are being held responsible for how others may act? And who decides what is 'modest'? My DD loves wearing shorts and tights, but they are short so would they be unsuitable, despite no flesh on display? I'm really not explaining myself well, but would it bother anyone else?

I read that article before - it is one man's view... and not one I subscribe to... to me modest means respectfully, within a certain boundary...

I did not read into the school letter that it was because of the boys being there- I read that "girls should be modestly dressed" as being from the head OF A GIRL'S SCHOOL I read it in a Miss Jean Brodie voice too as in "my girls should respect a dress code, or they let the school down" type thing...

she can't tell the boys what to do, they are from somewhere else...

My girls have been to many a disco at school and yes as noble says - if you do not EXPLICITLY state it, some girls turn up dressed as for want of a better word tarts... 12 year old girls dressed as if for a hen night - tutus, stockings and suspenders see through top with lacy bra on show... have seen it all

Our school goes with the "don't dress like a tart or a pimp, or you will be sent home" line in assembly...

"Appropriate attire for a SCHOOL disco " is sent home in the letter though...

A quick Google reveals examples like THIS sixth form uniform policy for a 'normal' state 6th form. I fail to see how anyone can be offended by the word modest.

By kids senior school state that no shoulders or midriffs are to be on show. Is that offensive? It's certainly not gender neutral.

I can't see how asking the parents to ensure that the girls dress modestly is a problem. Everyone knows what it means. Some 11 year olds don't know what is appropriate and want to dress like their favourite pop stars - in my experience it's only the girls that do this.

Typo. 'My kids' not 'by kids'

I don't see a problem with it. Unfortunately there are idiotic people out there who take totally unintended messages from the way girls dress. Is it right? No. Does it happen? Yes.

There is a danger involved if 11 year old girls are allowed to wear very sexy clothes that make them look older or more experienced than they are. The school are responsible for what happens at, or around the vicinity, of a school disco and have tried to tactfully prevent a small number of persons from allowing their daughters to attend in age inappropriate outfits.

My kids senior school state that no shoulders or midriffs are to be on show. ... It's certainly not gender neutral.

Yes, it is. They should also specify no backside or underpant display :)

For a disco, I think it's bonkers to imply that 'clubbing' clothes shouldn't be worn. It's supposed to be a party. FTR, my parents bought me my first mini-dress for the school disco at age 13 (same set-up: girls' grammar, joint party.) It was 1968 - mini-dresses were very mini, and it was my first 'adult' dress. My parents were not what you'd call permissive or indulgent; far from it.

Blimey, sorry for abandoning the thread, it's beeb a very busy day. I've only skim read so apologies, I'll go back and read it properly later. To clarify the bit I left out of the original letter was something along the lines of 'we will call your parents to come and get you'

In fairness Garlic some of the clothes young girls wear to clubs and discos nowadays goes way beyond wearing a mini. I doubt the school has any issue with kids turning up in short dresses - it's the high heels, barely there shorts, stockings with suspenders etc that is probably concerning them.

Dress code fine. Wording not fine.

If it was meant to convey that the girls must dress in a manner becoming to the school, then why use the words modest and safety? Surely you would simply send a letter like some I've received from school along the lines of 'while this is happening outside of school hours, our pupils will still be representing the school, and we would like them to dress appropriately' No mention of safety, no mention of modesty, everyone happy.

This:

Girls of 11 dressing as though they are sexually available gives the wrong signal to the type of boys (and they do exist) who think it's acceptable for them to harass the girls. If you would be happy for this to happen to your daughter "don't worry dear, you wear what you like, you will only be assaulted if you meet a rapist" bullshit..
The reality can be, teenage boy sees teenage girl dressed provocatively and thinks she is up for it. Or Teenage boy sees 11 year old child in age appropriate clothing, and chatting her up wouldn't even cross his mind. Why is this so difficult for people to get??

Is 2 paragraphs of rape myth and victim blaming bullshit, and can be safely given this face.

Our school goes with the "don't dress like a tart or a pimp, or you will be sent home" line in assembly...

"Appropriate attire for a SCHOOL disco " is sent home in the letter though...

This is literally a far better way to tackle the issue. What can be said in person, is far more liberal and forgiving, than what can be sent home in writing, for others to read over and over, show other people, analyse, scan and share, etc etc.

In fairness Garlic some of the clothes young girls wear to clubs and discos nowadays goes way beyond wearing a mini.

It's all about social context, Falling ... very short skirts were considered my many to presage the downfall of civilisation and, naturally, to cause rape. There were also miles of anxious editorial by 'medical experts' warning that short skirts caused kidney disease, infertility and probably bubonic plague A quick search didn't get me the newspaper articles I remember laughing at, but thought you'd enjoy this:-

"This interpretation of As You Like It caused controversy among the people of Liverpool because of its use of contemporary dress. Letters of complaint were sent to the Council the racy mini-skirts worn by the Everyman's actresses: ‘how can these half-naked ignorant–looking young things speak the immortal lines’. Unsurprisingly, the combination of moral outrage and short skirts had the opposite of the intended effect - the theatre was packed full on opening night."

My children's school dress policy says this about summer clothes (it gets very hot here). I think it is a non contentious gender neutral approach. It's easy to follow and has the same effect as the 'modest dress' concept is apparently trying to achieve without the rape myth modesty = safety conflation.

Summer wear shall be seasonably cool but non-revealing; e.g. no halter tops, muscle shirts/tank tops, half shirts, cut offs, high cut shorts, extreme mini skirts and low hanging trousers.

Just had this thread brought to my attention.

I'd be asking to see the risk assessment that led to this letter and I'd also be asking why they are holding a disco at all if they cannot keep my child safe.

They could have given a list of rules about the length of skirts, no underwear on show etc etc. Rather than send them home I'd have them bring school uniform so if they breach the rules they could be told to change in to uniform.

'Modest' means different things to different people. Growing up my parents were friends of someone whose daughter lived in Iran when the revolution took place. Apparently women who had been forced to cover up found it nice to go to the beach when a breeze was blowing so that anyone who looked could see they were not wearing anything underneath.

They should word it differently, but not sure how they can do it without causing offence, but it is very sad that teenage girls feel the need to dress in the sort of clothes that the school wants to ban. All these years of women's lib and we seem to have gone backwards. Why in earth do we now have masses of pink everywhere, when little, graduating to sex objects? What has made girls feel they have to dress like that?
For those saying they should send it to the boys too- it would be pretty silly, boys will be dressing the way they always have and will have long trousers and nothing more revealing than a Tshirt.

It is a girls only grammar - the head has no say in the boys dress anyhow. That would have been dealt with by their head in their school.

Amused at the insistence that it's a grammar. Surely grammar school girls don't dress like tarts, sluts, crack whores and all the other deeply distasteful words that have been used on this thread?

An 11/12/13 yr old boy is not going to turn up at a school disco in skimpy, revealing clothing - the parents would think they were mad if they sent out such a letter!
The sad thing to me is that girls want to dress like that- why does a year 7 girl want to? Are they under pressure to conform - and if so where is the pressure coming from- that is the worrying thing to me.

Maybe you don't get it in a mixed comprehensive, Hakluyt. Boys are more friends - and are known, by the girls, to be more immature.

Sorry, mehitabel- I do get it. I was just being facetious about the grammar school, rather than the single sex element.

I know you were, Hakluyt. but OP seemed to think it relevant!
However, I went to both myself and the all girls grammar was the sex mad one! Even then you wouldn't have needed that letter- girls of that age had short skirts etc but they didn't wear totally inappropriate clothing.

I'm not at all for the early sexualisation of girls.

But ime y7 girls can be at very different stages in their development. My eldest dd had pretty much gone through puberty by then. Her boobs were about dd cup, she had started her periods etc, and she wanted to dress up. (she was 12 in the October so old for her year)

I completely disapproved by the way, but stepped back. She wore crop tops and high shorts at that age. I had to choose my battles with her and that wasn't one I fought. (In her case there were no boys at the disco anyway, but she wasn't interested in boys). Her friends are all at a similar stage in their development and all wore clothes that appear to be testing their sexuality. I don't want her to hide herself under baggy tshirts which is what I did when I was her age.

(when her father asked her to dress more appropriately, she asked whether it meant she was asking to get raped....).

my younger dd just isn't the same and wore a sparkly dress to the disco- she hasn't started her periods, has no boobs. all her friends are the same as her. I can see the more developed group in her year and they are like my older dd - they are wearing skimpy tight clothes. I think its just a stage they go through, although it seems to be a couple of years before my generation did.

they do the thigh gap thing anyway, whether they're wearing tights or not. they compare their figures, and they are fixated on how sexy they look (just look at the pouty selfies etc).

They would have been better off saying 'please can all students (male and female) dress modestly and smartly. The event is a joint school one and as such all students will need to dress appropriately when representing both schools.

I find it worrying that they are comparing figures and have a fixation about how sexy they are- no wonder there are far more mental health problems today.
I was totally flat chested at that age, so life would have been hard- luckily it didn't matter when I was a yr 7 otherwise I think I would have been a social pariah.
The pressures are enormous in our young people, that is what is worrying rather than a dress code letter from the Head.

They are an all girls school Pelican so a bit pointless adding male to the letter!

Could they send one generic letter to both schools?