To think you can't just trundle along at any old speed you fancy...

[TallulahTwinkletoes]

I fully expect to get flamed for this because I know I'm a tad over the top about this but it's my pet hate so here goes.

If say be gentle but I know this is the wrong place for that

I drive a lot. Every day I drive on a road that's technically a country road as there are fields either side but it's more than wide enough and not too windy. This road is followed by two straight roads. These are all national speed limit roads.

This is comfortably attainable with a few corners on the country road where 50 is a better speed. Obviously various weathers call for different speeds. I was behind a double decker bus doing 50 down there today.

The last few days I have been stuck behind people doing 35-40. Today the lady flashed at me when I finally get chance to overtake.

They way I see it is if you are driving so slow on the roads either
A) you are unaware of the speed limit/unable to follow basic road signs and therefore shouldn't be driving
B) do not feel comfortable driving at an appropriate limit for the road and therefore shouldn't be driving.

I know it's a limit not a target but you fail your driving test if you 'fail to progress' so they shouldn't be driving like this.

It's the principle that they don't care about anyone's time frame or how they affect other people. They just trundle along deciding what speed they want to go at and not giving a fuck.

We all have bad days where we mess up roundabouts and misjudge but Jesus Christ, if you can't drive at 60 in a straight line...

I think the rule is far closer to acknowledging reality than saying 'don;t pull out unless there is a big gap'. The acknowledgement of reality is shown in its avoidance of any mention of the speed limit.

How do you quantify 'big gap'?
And how often do you get a gap you would eyeball as 'big' on the really busy motorways?

Let's get the red herring of 75 or 80 mph out of the picture --
If you pull out at 65 to overtake a vehicle in the left lane and a line of traffic doing 70 is thrown into fender-bender chaos behind you as a result, then yes everyone is at or under the speed limit, but you are in the wrong. You are not automatically blameless because you are going slower -- in fact it is the opposite case.

It is the difference between the speeds of the newcomer to the passing lane and the traffic already there that rule 133 seeks to highlight as the problem. It specifically refers to altering speed or altering course as problems slower drivers (relative to the speed of the passing lane) should not cause. It wouldn't refer to them as problems overtaking drivers need to prevent if there wasn't some understanding of the fact that causing drivers to brake or change lanes (or drive off the road altogether) is dangerous.

I do flash my lights at middle-lane hoggers sometimes, but sure as eggs is eggs, they are usually the type who never look in their mirror anyway!

Also I get very annoyed with people who do move to the inside lane - just when a slip road is joining. So there I am, coming onto the motorway, and suddenly a Polo (yep, it usually is a Polo) moves into the lane right at the point of access.

Generally all these gripes are about people being oblivious - whether it be speed, driving conditions, other road users... a driver should be aware of his or her surroundings and other vehicles at all times . No excuses. I have no truck with people who offer any excuse, and as for those on phones or - aaagghh! - ipads at the wheel - they should be banned forever.

The thing that causes most accidents on roads is people travelling at speed, particularly in adverse conditions and over estimating their driving ability

Shame that the figures don't actually back that up but don't let that worry you.

it only takes one blown tyre or a sudden stop to cause problems and at 75MPH those problems are worse for everyone than they would be at a slower speed

So it's dangerous to travel at 75mph then? So what about most of europe then with higher speed limits? When I leave Calais at 75mph is it suddenly safe to do 75mph as that is under the speed limit?

You judge a suitable gap in the same way that you would judge a gap whenever you want to pull out into traffic, whether you are at a junction, turning right, joining a round about, joining from a slip road or overtaking. If there isn't enough space to pull out safely you don't pull out.

Different vehicles have different capabilities and obey different speed limits. Traffic moves at variable speeds. Get used to it.

Fair enough Dirk, I will rephrase that. The thing that changes an accident from a minor fender bender dispute between insurance companies into a life altering incident is speed.

However to be facetious, without speed the greatest danger on the roads would be falling trees and highway men.

To be facetious, without speed the most dangerous thing would still be incompetent drivers and they're dangerous with or without speed. So... Speed isn't as dangerous as you think.

In my facetious argument all the cars are stationary (although I suppose the tree falls at a certain speed and the highway man's bullet travels at speed.. )

people aren’t just allowed to take a view on what is safe for them

And yet we do.

More people are killed each year by failing to look properly than by speeding.

Ok so let's take an obvious example.

On a country road (or non dual carriageway) a car sits at a junction and thinks nothing is coming. She pulls out and a bike doing 100mph ends up in her car with her.

Who is at fault? The guy on the bike or the incompetent driver who did check enough?

Had she not pulled his speed would have caused no issues. Had he been going slower, the result would be the same.

And thousands of people are not killed or seriously injured in the UK every year due to exceeding the speed limit.

Yes tiggy, we've established some roads are not safe to do 60 on and people should drive appropriately. I agree with that. There are some roads where you absolutely can't do 60. But there are plenty of roads where you absolutely can! And yet people don't!

I went on the dual carriageway this morning. I can't stand peoples dithering. I will have to go the country way tonight tho as I think there's too much traffic at night.

On your example, it's the bike driver mostly. At 100mph it may be too fast for anyone to see pulling up from a junction, unless the road is very straight.

From your OP, people have been fined for going too slowly and hindering traffic. Having said that, if they are old or can't drive very well, it's best if they do go slowly (or stay off the roads completely). The other drivers should be patient and keep driving safely.

I was driving home last night and the van in front of me ( a window cleaner thingy so not obviously connected) deemed it fit to slow to 20mph every time he went past a group of joggers on the opposite side and hoot at them. Argh!

And of course it's not much of a consolation that the other driver is partially to blame if you are dead.

How many joggers are round your end merly?

There were about five 'packs' of them. I forgave the first slowing down as I thought it might be a support vehicle. Honestly, there are loads of people who jog in pairs and more round here. The yoofs used to egg them at one point.

Speed is an aggravating factor in conjunction with most other causes though

That is the most you can say about speed. And it is true for any speed. I once crawled along in snowy conditions and then hit some black ice and spun my car, thankfully in a vast car park with nobody else anywhere near. I was doing about 5-10 mph.

If there is enough room to pull out at 65 and someone is approaching at 70 not too close to prevent you from pulling out, but not half a mile away that driver doing 70 is going to need to change speed if you keep going at 65. This is specifically what is discouraged by rule 133. Once you get into the overtaking lane and see that driver behind you gaining on you, you need to put your foot down until you can see in your rearview mirror that the distance between you remains constant.