To think you can't just trundle along at any old speed you fancy...

[TallulahTwinkletoes]

I fully expect to get flamed for this because I know I'm a tad over the top about this but it's my pet hate so here goes.

If say be gentle but I know this is the wrong place for that

I drive a lot. Every day I drive on a road that's technically a country road as there are fields either side but it's more than wide enough and not too windy. This road is followed by two straight roads. These are all national speed limit roads.

This is comfortably attainable with a few corners on the country road where 50 is a better speed. Obviously various weathers call for different speeds. I was behind a double decker bus doing 50 down there today.

The last few days I have been stuck behind people doing 35-40. Today the lady flashed at me when I finally get chance to overtake.

They way I see it is if you are driving so slow on the roads either
A) you are unaware of the speed limit/unable to follow basic road signs and therefore shouldn't be driving
B) do not feel comfortable driving at an appropriate limit for the road and therefore shouldn't be driving.

I know it's a limit not a target but you fail your driving test if you 'fail to progress' so they shouldn't be driving like this.

It's the principle that they don't care about anyone's time frame or how they affect other people. They just trundle along deciding what speed they want to go at and not giving a fuck.

We all have bad days where we mess up roundabouts and misjudge but Jesus Christ, if you can't drive at 60 in a straight line...

True -- you can opt to use the P plates as long as you think you need them. But if you feel you need them more than a year after licensing, then you should get more lessons.

Technically dirk is right. If it wasn't arbitrary, all roads in the whole world would have the exact speed limit for each category.

I like to think it's midway between 'well thought out' and 'arbitrary'.

You are forcing a vehicle to slow down behind you if you are doing 70 in an overtaking lane and they are doing 75 until they catch up to you, just as you are forcing a vehicle to slow down behind you if you are doing 30 on a country road and they are doing 35, or 60.. Faster traffic behind you is always going to catch up no matter how slowly everyone is going. 25 mph will always end up right behind 20 mph. 75 will always end up right behind 70.

Yes you are causing a hazard if you go slower in an overtaking lane where everyone else is doing a higher speed. Whether you pull out at 50 or 70, if the traffic behind you is doing 75 then you are causing a hazard. There is nothing magical about obeying the speed limit that absolves you of blame if your relatively slower speed causes a chain reaction rear ending or causes someone else to alter course into the median or forces them to swerve into the left lane. Read 133.

If you pull out into traffic you are causing a hazard, if you pull out into a space you are not causing a hazard. Rule 133 refers to pulling out in front of another vehicle.

If traffic catches up and has to slow down because cars ahead are going more slowly then that is just traffic - there is no rule that says anybody has to give way or pull over simply because a car behind wants to go faster - you just have to drive at an appropriate speed and observe correct lane discipline.

Faster traffic behind you is always going to catch up no matter how slowly everyone is going. Yes - and the faster traffic will have to slow down, just as it would if it pulled up behind a lorry that has to drive at 40, a tractor, or somebody just obeying the speed limit. In particular it's going to be tough to argue that somebody caused an accident because you caught up with them while they were driving at 70.

There is nothing magical about obeying the speed limit that absolves you of blame if your relatively slower speed causes a chain reaction rear ending

No, the thing that stops this from happening is people observing the correct stopping distances.

causes someone else to alter course into the median or forces them to swerve into the left lane.

Absolutely. Of course you shouldn't pull out in front of somebody. Happening to be in front of somebody who would rather you drove a little faster is not pulling out in front of them.

No offence but my driving instructor was far more qualified to give me advice on speeds than you are I suspect, he had a long history of training police drivers. If he says it's safe to do 10 miles under the limit then I'm not going to start worrying about getting arrested because that's what you said!
Going under the speed limit does not cause accidents, failing to pay attention to the road, not leaving a safe breaking distance, speeding, these are the things that cause accidents.

The driver doing 75MPH can either slow gradually as it sees a slower driver up ahead (as any sane driver would) or it can indicate right and pull over into lane 3 assuming there is a gap.

Absolutely, and having found a safe gap, they are then under no obligation to drive at 90 because some idiot who can't bear to drop their speed for 30 seconds appears in their rear view mirror.

Everybody then drops back towards the left hand lane as far as possible and all is right with the world.

Mathanxiety, he would also argue that if you DONT feel a bit nervous behind the wheel then you are cocky and not taking it seriously enough. Even experienced and confident drivers should feel a slight sense of nerves when handling machinery that can kill, complacency is nothing to be proud of.

Is anyone here complacent?

I think so

I don't. Even dirk only drives to what he feels safe at. That's not complacent. That's weighing up the safety and the consequences. I'm sure he knows the capabilities of his car better than anyone here...

I think you are trying to blur the line between nervousness and responsibility there. There is a difference between someone who feels too nervous to drive at a speed over 30 mph and a driver who is responsible. Of course there is a difference between responsibility and recklessness too.

The thing about complacency is that you generally don't know when you are being complacent.

You fail to understand that when it comes to driving, it is all about context, Yoni. 'Context' meaning whatever the rest of the traffic is doing as well as road conditions, weather, light.

You simply cannot state that for every single minute you are out on the road it is safe to do 'ten miles under the speed limit'.

It is the difference between your slow speed and the faster speed of other drivers that can cause accidents. Not specifically what speed any of you are going.

And it is not always possible for drivers to change lanes, nor does 133 of the code envision changing course or changing speed in response to slower drivers moving into a passing lane. 133 specifically warns that you should not make drivers in the overtaking lanes slow down or change course when you enter the overtaking lane.

133 does not specify what speed everyone should be doing because it wisely appreciates the fact that it is the difference in speed that causes the problem, not the actual speed itself.

The only way actual speed can cause a problem is if drivers are speeding without regard for conditions including traffic conditions, and the only way slow speed can cause a problem is if the slowness is without regard for traffic conditions. If all the drivers are doing 75 and you try doing 70/60/50/40/30, you will cause havoc. If someone is trying to do 60 (ten miles below the speed limit) and the rest of the traffic is doing 45, then the 'ten miles under' driver will cause havoc. It's the speed difference that matters.

It is all about context. If you have the road to yourself then you don't have to bother yourself with whatever other drivers are up to. But the whole trick to it is the fact that other drivers use the road.

I'll agree that it isn't always possible to change lanes - sometimes you have to rely on somebody slowing down and letting you in. If they don't you just can't change lanes. There is never an excuse to pull out in front of somebody.

However, actual speed does cause a problem - that is why the signs say speed kills. A fast moving object will hit a pedestrian/wall/other car with more force than a slow moving object. Two cars travelling at speed in opposite directions will crash with greater force than if one of them was travelling more slowly.

Rule 133 assumes that everybody is obeying the rest of the Highway Code. In no way does it encourage anyone to break the speed limit to overtake, just incase somebody behind might catch up and want to drive faster.

Yes you need to appreciate that there are other drivers on the road. Some of them, occasionally, want to drive more slowly. Allow plenty of time for your journey, wait for a safe place and overtake when appropriate.

If you find slow drivers so frustrating that you are tempted to drive dangerously, don't get into your car.

You are also likely to encounter traffic jams, rubbish collections, pedestrian crossings, adverse weather, road works and animals on the road. Plan accordingly.

It is an arbitrary figure insofar as the safe speed to go if overtaking is the speed of the rest of the traffic, be that 30 or 80. If your lane is doing 30 and you are not willing to do 80 then stay at 30

There are no roads in the UK where travelling at 80mph is legal.

What other reason is there to feel nervous er, people overtaking three cars at once and only just making it.
Someone unfortunately didn't make it and hit my daughter who was travelling at normal speed head on-she broke her legs.
Oh and impatient people tailgating flashing and intimidating people too. What do they tend to do? they slow down because they are scared.

I understand why people get frustrated with middle lane hoggers but can't understand the extreme impatience.

Yes that is undeniable. The fact remains that if traffic is all doing 80 then the driver who wants to do 70 is causing a hazard.

Or if it is all doing 70 then the driver who thinks 60 is an adequate overtaking speed (because the lorry she is overtaking is doing 50) is causing a hazard in the overtaking lane.

It is the difference in speed between the individual driver and the majority of the rest of the traffic that causes the problem or makes the speed of the other drivers a problem.

'Only just making it'... Not quite.

I'm very sorry for your daughter tho and hope she's made a full recovery

You understand middle lane hoggers because you're faced with them. I drive a lot and spend a lot of time on country roads. That's why I understand this.

If I'm getting fed up of middle lane hoggers I pull in behind a lorry and if it's particularly bad get off the motorway and join the a roads.

Rule 133 in no way shape or form says only do the speed limit when you are overtaking. It asks drivers to use common sense.
It forbids causing other drivers to slow down or alter their course. It assumes no general compliance with speed limits. It correctly points out the dangers of having a difference in speed between a car joining the overtaking lane and those already in it. It appreciates that those drivers may be forced to brake or swerve and understands that these are dangers.

I understand middle lane hoggers -yes but I do stay patient and don't drive up their backsides flashing my headlights.
I do most of my driving on country roads too. Yes being behind a tractor or an extremely slow driver is frustrating but they have as much right to be there as you do.

Also 70 is the maximum speed limit not 80.

Tractors don't bother me. They HAVE to go at that speed. It's nice some idle selfish choice.