Aibu too not understand the reaction of the Ferguson Michael Brown in the USA

[Natashathemum]

My Dh thinks that it is a disgusting example of racial inequality in America. But i think having read a lot of articles/news that the police officer was only protecting himself. Although it is unfortunate that someone so young died.

However Dh feels strongly it is disgusting racism. He called me blind and crazy (lighthearted). Aibu for thinking this.

I agree with the ops DH

I think the MB case is another example of how institutionally racist America is, I think that even if MB was being aggressive (and I'm not saying he was) that the officers ingrained fear meant that he was much more likely to shoot a black man than a white one...and it does sound like overkill, 7 bullets!

I have no words for the 12 year old...I can understand why the MB case may not be clear cut to a lot of people but I really don't understand how grown men can kill a 12 year old, I don't believe that your avarage 12 year old wouldn't put a toy gun down when ordered to by armed officers

I don't think the majority of the posters on here are trying to shut down black voices but that is may be due to my white privilege showing and I'm just not seeing it

Obviously police officers get attacked. I have seen it myself in person. But this particular scenario does not ring very true. The cop wants us to think he was just sitting in his car talking to Brown when all of a sudden without provocation Brown started attacking the car and punching him in the head. Is that impossible? No, of course not, people do stupid things all the time. But is it likely? Usually these things escalate during an arrest, or like TooMany says, when the person is drunk or high.

This explains the scepticism well:

www.vox.com/2014/11/25/7281165/darren-wilsons-story-side

Also, as people are so hung up on physical evidence, let's look at the cop's injuries. He doesn't really have any. Despite being punched in the face by such an enormous guy, he has a slight graze on his cheek and that's it.

Also and this may not be evident to UK people the graze is on the wrong side. It's on his right cheek, which would be facing away from the car window in an American car.

It's not about denying cops get attacked, it's saying this particular scenario is not very plausible.

But this scenario, with all the evidence, witnesses, testimony, forensics, (rather than the emotive headlines and half-read reports on this thread) have been put before a grand jury, and accepted as not only plausible, but actual, and the officer's actions deemed justified- that's justice in motion: he has been through the judicial process and exonerated.
Had the grand jury came to the conclusion he was not justified in his actions, he would be charged accordingly (and there would still be riots).

Michael Brown wasn't a little boy. He was a young man just at adulthood, but not a little boy. Was he really shot because he simply looked demonic and scary or because he physically rushed at the police officer who was worried he was going to wrestle the gun off him and maybe turn it against him? I don't know, but I suppose the grand jury felt they had enough scientific evidence in this particular case to feel they could come to a conclusion on that.

I'm at the very least surprised that people do not think an 18 year old man who physically attacked the shopkeeper who he had just robbed is not a thug? I was hit on the head once by a complete random stranger on a lonely street. A teenager, I'd guess and white. I reported it to the police. It obviously went nowhere as there was no cctv and no witnesses and it was a stranger who disappeared. He was an effing thug and I would call him lots more. I do think someone who would do that is dangerous and is capable of doing anything. I had my toddler with me at the time and I daren't think about what could have happened. Would I care if I had been in a position to defend myself and something bad happened to my attacker? No, not even a little bit, being honest. Do If think the action should have been judged through a prism informed by what colour he was? No way. Would my attacker not have been a thug if he was black because then it would simply be a biased group perception by white people? Even Dorian Johnson in his testimony stated that Michael Brown didn't strike him as someone who would do that. So his friend isn't even brushing off the fact that he basically physically attacked someone after the theft. Don't attribute colour to the perpetrator of that action. And I don't think the perception of this action depends on what colour the observer is either. The shooting is a separate issue, but Michael Brown was a thug (same as the white guy who attacked me), as seen from this incident. And don't give me any rubbish that about attacks by people being simply white perception of them as thugs if the perpetrator black. People who attack people are thugs. Unfortunately, I wasn't lucky enough to have my attack recorded on cctv or have a witness like Dorian Johnson give testimony to identify the perpetrator.

I know people are talking about greater and more general issues of racism here and propensity for sentencing depending on colour. And there is obviously a problem. But should each case be looked at through the prism of societal problems and not just on it's own evidence. There are investigations at the moment in to the police force.

I've watched an interview of the guy who was walking with Michael Brown when he got shot. He shot him in the arm as he ran away and then as he turned around with his hands up saying 'don't shoot' he shot him several more times, he even carried on shooting him as he was falling to the ground.
According to the man who owned the shop he supposedly robbed he didn't think it was him. There is CCTV of Michael brown paying for things from the shop moments before.
The officer claimed that Michael brown punched him in the face through the car window with such force he thought he was going to pass out, yet the pictures released showed the bruise on the wrong side of his face, which either means that Michael was left handed (which he wasn't) or he had to reach right around the other side of him in the car to punch him, also if you've seen the pictures, there is barely a mark on his face. He also said that he had several deep cuts in his face and arms, again, if you look at the pictures, there's nothing there.
He should have been at very least been charged with manslaughter. And if you read up about the police's reaction to the protestors.... Their behaviour is disgusting, throwing tear gas into the faces of old women who were doing nothing but standing. A woman was having a heart attack and they started battoning the people trying to help her.

Sorry dreamingbohemian I didn't see your post saying pretty much what I said!

Minus2 A grand jury that consisted of nine white people and three black people.

headdesk, his companion at the time, Dorian Johnson, testified at the grand jury that it was MB and he robbed and physically attacked the shopkeeper and he was aware there was a camera there.

www.vox.com/2014/11/25/7280989/darren-wilson-evidence

Read this if you think 'the grand jury decided! How can you argue against a jury's decision'

Ah fair enough. I hadnt seen that. Still, using lethal force on an unarmed man for a robbery? He could have used mace but apparently he didn't carry it because it was uncomfortable to wear?! There were so many things that he went about the wrong way and the whole thing just doesn't add up properly.

I'm going to walk away from this thread because it could drive me mad. I don't want to parse over all the "facts" endlessly.

I really do think fear of black men in American culture played a big part in Michael Brown being shot and Tamir Rice and many others.

I don't place all the blame for that on the individual policemen. They are products of their environment. I grew up hearing adults say things like:
Test scores are low, but that's because of all the black people in county x. Infant mortality is high in Mississippi, but that's because of all the black people.

Incomes are really low in New Orleans but that's because of all the black people there.

Detroit has no tax base, but that's because of all the black people.

Crime is too high in the Bronx, but that's because of all the black people.
Drop out rates seem high at X University, but they do have a lot of black students.
Lots of young men are being killed by guns, but that's just black guys in urban areas.

Get it? Drip, drip, drip.

What is the message? Black people don't really matter. Black people are a problem. Black people are bringing us down. Black people aren't real Americans. (That's the oddest of all, most black people's ancestors have been in the US at least 300 years.)

What is the truth as I see it? America needs a plan for sorting this mess out. Because it's the right thing to do. Because the world is a more competitive place and you won't keep up if you don't let that 15% join the team properly.

headdesk apparently it was taser he didn't carry, not mace. But I don't know how accurate that is.

One of my colleagues was choked unconscious last year by an unarmed man, he would have been justified to use lethal force (but obviously was unable to). Thankfully a colleague found him being attacked.

Got to love all the people in this thread that happy pass over all the physical evidence just to try and protect scum, just because his black.

are you all really saying that a cop shouldn't defend themselves?

As for the Dorian Johnson, the guy has lied time and time again, first saying MB was shot in the back, then saying he had his hands up, each time changing his story when the evidence proves his lying, i just hope the police arrest this and he spends a long time inside for trying to distory the policeman's life.

dawn and do you know how that grand jury deliberated on the evidence? Do you know how the (obviously racist) white folk voted? How did the black jurers vote? Was it unanimous? (Needed nine of the twelve to vote for indictment on any of the five potential charges, ranging from manslaughter to murder).
Google doesn't answer all of those questions, but it does say that they had 25 days of evidence, testimony and deliberation, and I trust know more about this case than you, I, or any poster on this forum, and did not indict the officer.
Or do you know more, from several thousand miles away?

The way police deal with crowds is fraught, but I don't know how these things are set-up. I do remember the middle-aged man who died in London of a heart attack and a policeman used a baton on him. But there was footage of that particular event and the policeman had to go to court. That was an individual attack though.

Mike Brown was stoped for jay walking. The policeman then thought he looked like a suspect in a recent robbery....and he ended up shooting 12 bullets at him, 7 of which hit him, 1 through the top of his head out of his jaw and into his shoulder. 1 through his eye.

Can I ask how often your white law abiding husbands have been stopped 'on suspicion of xyz'?? That is a serious question. I don't know even one black man who hasn't been stopped multiple times by police for no good reason

Mike Brown attacked a police officer after being stop, try to take that police officers gun, the police acted the way he should have.

I was stopped by the police on suspicion of not having car insurance. I did though. I'm female though. Is that okay? Most of the public and the ordinary police in London aren't armed though. That is a difference to all concerned.

Out of interest, has anyone here been physically attacked by a stranger? If so, how would you describe the attacker?

Using lots of though, though.

petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/seek-justice-against-louis-head-stepfather-mike-brown/hSjXD6rN

interesting, would be good to see Mike Browns stepfather charged with inciting a riot

Depends which version of events you believe. I don't believe MB attacked an armed officer

I suspect I know about as much as you do Minus but having a go at me doesn't put you in a better position. I think it is entirely possible that some of the folk on the jury were racist. I think it entirely unreasonable that only a quarter of the jury were of the same ethnicity as deceased.

Pang I've been attacked by strangers. They were both male and female and my best description would be skinhead football hooligans. This was though, in 1978. I still have a couple of small scars and one fairly large emotional one!

Dawndonnaagain just so you know, the Grand Jury was selected prior to Michael Brown being shot, and the ethnic/racial make up not designed with this case in mind.

Caveat, I do believe there is institutional racism in the US (and in the UK too, not America bashing). I don't know whether outright and or institutional racism played a part in this particular case, though I do believe the Grand Jury knows more about this case than me, so I'm ducking out again to lurk.