to think there is a massive disconnect between being a parent and working and this needs to be taught emphatically at school

[theremustbeanotherway]

So that my people like me, as so many of you are, don't spend decades getting those top GCSEs, A-levels, the Oxbridge degree, the high-flying legal career, only to feel like I need to massively downgrade/quit work in order to have anything approaching a balanced life with my growing family? Tis truly miserable. I know part-time is a possibility but certainly not at my firm and they are like gold dust elsewhere. DH very supportive and does more than his fair share but it's not working at present and I can only see it getting worse in future.

Are there parts of the world where society is set-up so as to allow both parents to work without the family suffering? Is it because our society lacks the support of a strong extended family and community network or because our jobs are more demanding and don't acknowledge the competing demands of a young family?

Legal career here too and mum to a one year old DS. My firm have allowed me part time. Great. I can pay the mortgage, childcare fees and put some away on my pro rata salary. But I spend my whole day rushing from one thing to the next, always feeling I'm a bit crap at home and work, and have resigned myself to the fact it is unlikely I will make Partner in my next decade. My once pristine home is a always a bit of a state, I don't get to see DH or DS enough, and I have to tread a fine line keeping clients happy that I am not always available. I can't honestly say it's working for me or my family, but I can't see another way. I doubt any man has ever had the same problems or considerations

mrsbiggins same here, but I look at the alternatives (being a SAHM or going back to full time and partnership track) and this is definitely the best of the options, for me.

OP your complaint now seems to be that few jobs exist (even much lower paid jobs) which allow you several hours a day with your child. I don't think this is really a surprise surely? If you're not saying that and would be ok with seeing dc for say an hour each end of the day, I think this is doable in many jobs - including City law, as long as you're willing for that time to be split between you and DH and/or as long as you're willing to sometimes work after bedtime/at the weekend.

Certainly not several, more like 1-2 hours.

OP, pop over to the feminist boards.

Nobody will tell you that you are mad or unreasonable for feeling an inner rage that you cant seem to balance the career you trained for with motherhood, I promise you!

For those that think women should just suck it up and either choose a career and put up/shut up, or devote themselves entirely to their children - ask yourself this: how many men are having these angsty conversations about work/life balance at this moment in time? How many??

You are allowed to question these things and your feelings of frustration are entirely valid, OP.

I think I agree with recent posters.

My life doesn't really work for me right now because I work too hard at work and at home and don't have enough time for life. I worry that I will fall ill because I never stop. But in a way that is my choice - I chose this life because I wanted the high flying career and the children that I would be there for as much as possible. I am a single parent so I must do everything for them and want it that way anyway. I have a part time nanny share but that's basic childcare and every single other thing they need, I do (homework, good food, school administration, managing friends and parties, external interests). I was up at 5.30 this morning writing appraisals before getting the children up, sorting out homework, getting them to school and getting into work myself.

The unfairness is that most men don't get into this bind. The men I work with work very hard then go home and lie on the sofa. Or go to networking events. And spend the weekend doing a favourite sport or going to a film. None of that has happened in my life for the past 8 years. The issue for most families (not mine) is splitting the load fairly. I wouldn't want to counsel girls at school not to go for the big career because it might be really awful and hard work. My life is really hard work atm but I'm hoping this is a relatively temporary phase and that my labours will come to fruition in the form of a better balance at some point.

Mypantsaregreen very honest post. Do you miss your career at all though?

theremust - you're right, this isn't just an issue for those in well paid City careers and you're right again, it worsens from starting school. Its an issue for every parent working inflexible hours and we know there are many in that position who aren't well paid.

Those who are well paid have the choice of either giving up work or flexible childcare. Not an ideal choice by any means, OP makes a valid point (and I empathise from personal experience) but my real sympathies lie with the mother working on the supermarket till who can't afford after school childcare, can't leave work to pick up a sick child and faces a life on benefits as a consequence.

I'll be advising my dd to put her career first as long as possible. Not because its more important than having children, but because I want her to have some degree of choice.

Another one it's not working for - and I left my job and went freelance to get more 'life-work balance' - constantly exhausted, my DH having to pick up lots of the childcare so I can fulfill work commitments and the worst thing of all is that my paid-for childcare arrangements make me and my children utterly miserable. I really feel they suffer because I work, and worst of all I am mainly working to pay for the childcare. I never thought it would be this hard.

I have decided to take a sabbatical to try and sort my life out - if I work really hard for the next 5 months I can save up enough for us to afford me to take 6 months off. I am truly grateful and thankful for this. I know, by having spoken to them through my job, that there are lots of women who are working just as long hours as me for terrible pay in jobs they hate who can't afford this luxury. I am going to have to take a long, hard look at my life and hopefully stepping off the hamster wheel will help me to recalibrate, but i don't expect society or the job market to do me any favours and I feel that my previous naivety about work/family/self-fulfillment has been well and truly swept away.

My DH gets furious about this topic. He feels a great deal of pressure as a man to be a provider. He feels that he would lose a huge amount of respect and male identity if he downshifted, worked part time, combined work and family, etc. He works very long hours and misses our kids desperately. Other men have shrugged off society's expectations but let's not kid ourselves that it is easy. Men have different pressures and less choices.

OP asks about other parts of the world. I'll never forget a trip to India 15 years ago when our tour guide asked us in a whisper whether it was true that in the UK nobody worked on a Saturday and Sunday? When I said that it was indeed typical, he went very quiet.

The problem is that when you shine academically and go into a high status job, you feel that the world should somehow meet your every desire. It can't and it won't. If you work full time, you move up the ladder. If you work part time, you don't. If you don't work when the kids are young, you will find it tricky getting back on the ladder. No legislation can change this.

I always feel for the men who work tremendously long hours to provide for their family too.

I have a friend who works p/t in a job she loves, she also does all the child related stuff such as driving to clubs, picking up, cooking, she does have a cleaner although the house is still a tip as she just doesn't have the time or motivation to keep on top of it. Her DH runs his own company and travels extensively, exists on very little sleep and yet she resents him because she feels that she has to pick up all the slack at home.

I often say to her, don't you consider him at all and that he may hate being stuck in meetings in far flung places on 5 hours sleep a night working horrendous hours every week? She really doesn't see though and just gets angry accusing him of getting away with things and leaving it all to her. As an outsider I think their lives are totally unbalanced, the DC's suffer from not seeing either of them or having a very tired, grumpy mother. She at least enjoys her job and doesn't have to commute at all. He on the other hand - well I don't know how he gets through the week tbh.

sergeantmajor I've spent quite a lot of time in India and other third world countries, it really is like being on a different planet although I don't belittle problems and misery that people go through in our first world country.

I haven't read through all posts, but a sample and I am quite surprised. So much for the sisterhood, why can't a woman work and raise her children perfectly well. If anyone cares to read the research, the key is consistency of care, not one parent having to give everything up. Women need to stop seeing this as a guilt thing. Our children need role models and to spend time feeling that you don't give work enough or your children enough seems a life of sadness and regret.
I do agree that if you want to work in a highly competitive, highly paid environment then you may have issues. However, even in Law, you have options. Can you work for a less competitive employer, work for a charity, do more work in the area of welfare etc.

I do work full time and i can be tired. However I made a decision sometime ago to get a job outside the top 5 I worked for, waving goodbye to bonus, huge increments etc. I still have good work fulfilment, good pay but most importantly work set hours most of the year, taking small amounts of work home from time to time. My children also see that mummy can work and they don't need to rely on a male provider. I also make the choice to spend all my non-work time focusing on them which means I only meet friends after they are down for bed, don't take weekends away and spend my week lunch breaks searching for fun craft things etc to do with them. I genuinely love the time I spend with them and look forward to it.

Haven't read all the posts but I agree OP yanbu!
I've had to give up my career in the arts in London (lowish paid and many hours!) and now run my own business part time from new home in the country. At the moment my life work balance is good but only after getting it terribly wrong and feeling as though I have done huge damage to DS, myself and my marriage in the process (because of the focus and crazy amounts of time I had to devote to my work). I had absolutely no idea that it would all be so difficult to manage/balance work with motherhood. Feel much happier now, but feel for those who feel they are fighting a losing battle.

All the exams/Oxbridge/further MAs that seemed so important to me at the time - in order to feel as though I was truly 'achieving' - seem a nonsense now.

Thanks Spidergirl, a heartening post.

I do think that you can't have it all, that young children need love and care and time of a parent for most of their waking hours

I disagree with this MyPants. Young children need love and care and time of a dedicated, loving carer for most of their waking hours, but I disagree that that carer has to be a parent at all times. I was looked after by a nanny during weekdays growing up (seeing my parents at weekends and in the weekday mornings and evenings) and it worked very well for me. My DD has the same and it is working very well for her as far as I can tell. There are millions of families where both parents are working and the DC are in childcare, are you really saying these families are all giving their children substandard care?

theremust, if 1-2 hours a day split between you and DH is enough, that is eminently doable.

Example 1: My friend and her DH, both city lawyers. Children sleep roughly 8.15-7.15. They leave for work at 8.30, so see children for 1 hr 15 in the morning. One of them gets home at 8pm so sees child for 15 min before bedtime. Other parent works late. (Nanny works 8-8). Total parent/child time = 1.5 hours a day.

Example 2: me and DH. DH gets up with DD at 6.30, leaves 7.30 so sees her 1 hr. I get up 7.30 and leave at 8.30 so see her 1 hr. I get home at 7 while DH works late (or vice versa once a week). DD goes to bed at 8 so I see her another 1hr. (Nanny works 8-7). Total parent/child time = 3 hrs a day.

Example 3: another city lawyer friend and her city trader DH. DH goes to work v early. Child wakes at 7, friend drops at nursery at 8.30 so sees child 1.5 hrs. DH does pick up at 6 and bedtime at 7 so sees child 1 hr (while friend works late). Total parent/child time = 2.5 hrs a day.

Your exact timings will depend on how much and when your children sleep and what office hours you and your DH can negotiate (and all of us pick up work in the evenings and weekends sometimes) but you should be able to manage 1-2 hours a day of parent/child time between you and DH.

I'm not arguing with your broader point by the way about better information being given at a younger age - I agree with that - just giving you these examples as, if 1-2 hrs is enough for you, it is manageable even in city law.

why I see it is, you only have so many hours in the day.

you can't be fantastic at everythin and in two places at once its impossible

these days you are expected to have the perfect marriage, amazing friendships, fab family life, exciting and fufling work,great extended family relations....
otherwise your nota success

personally I would rather pcik what things are the most important to me, and prioritise them

Well said wheatfreetoast. Too much pressure on everyone, men, women and children to be high achievers in all areas - impossible and misery inducing to try and live up to.

If we start to say that mothers can't or shouldn't take on demanding careers, then we essentially hand over the running of everything important, from the media to the law making, from the economy to medicine to men.

Is that a society we want to live in? That we want our DC to live in?

We need women in the board room, in government, running universities and publishing houses. We need then having an input in macro policies that impact on us all.

How can leaving all this to the men , and the rich men at that, bode well for the future ?

Sod high achieving. I like my free time to slob around.

winterfable, thanks
I totally agree with your aswell that its too much pressure on everyone, men women and children
I mean kids these days, they have to be popular fun sporty academic have a great appereance

years ago it was ok to just be one of these things, if you were bright but not say very good looking or sporty, you were ok because you were bright
or vice versa
now children have to be great at everything...

its just exhausting and no fun

minipie - the tricky bit comes when they're finishing school at 3.15pm (ok, after school care, not so tricky) but child needs homework help, a fancy dress costume or some other project making on 1 days notice etc. All before exhaustion/bedtime. And they're not having a decent cooked tea before they come home either (hurrah for nurseries).

Not to mention the holiday care, inset days, half days in reception, parents evenings where frustratingly non working parents have booked all the slots after 6pm etc etc.

But all do-able...if you keep the nanny and use a private school.

I dont think having a 'high flying' job makes any difference to whether work-life balance is achievable. I work in middle management 3 days a week. I am paid reasonably well and have a supportive boss and husband but I still dont feel I am getting the balance right. If anything I dont feel that I am dedicated to either! Long days at work coupled with nursery runs and a tired DS whilst trying to prove to my colleagues that I am capable of the same level of output as before! Its lose-lose in my eyes. We hope to have another baby and I am seriously considering giving up working so that I can at least be 'good' at one aspect! I wish I had the security of a career that enabled me to go back to it in a few years (albeit maybe at a different level). Unfortunately that is not an option for me so I will need to completely re-visit my career options later on. I think many people compromise and it is how you manage the guilt that counts!

But all do-able...if you keep the nanny and use a private school. Well I hope you are right as this is the plan (nanny at least, school depends on lots of factors) and is one of the reasons I am trying to keep my city law job going, so as to cover the cost. That way hot tea, costumes and hopefully some homework would be done by the time I get home...

Well I think I'm doing ok. I work 4 days a week, well paid, fairly 9-5pm (though i flex it when needs be). I am a well connected expert in a narrow but important field and I've leveraged that for all its worth to get this job (which was offered to me on my first maternity leave). I also completely changed career direction in my mid to late 20s in order to build this kind of career, so I could balance it with having a family. It's working out better than i could possibly have hoped. Not a lawyer, though i think our in house lawyers get a better work / life balance than those in legal firms.

There are choices in the shades of grey beyond high flying / full on and SAHM. i would say at the moment i am deliberately choosing to middle fly my career, so that I can be the kind of parent i want to be. I'm doing well in my job, I know, privately, I could be doing more. I'm not so that I can leave promptly each day, and have proper time off to focus on my children when I'm not here.

Maybe this means I won't climb as high as if I was full time full on. On the one hand, that's my choice, on the other hand, i'll never know. What i do know is I'm happy in my choices: for me my parenting is at its best and most joyous when I have space and time for them. If anything I'd like to brake a little more, have more time with my children.

I wouldn't want to be a SAHM though. hats off to those that do, I'd go bonkers, over thinking everything. I need work as an outlet for me.

You do need to reflect on what you really want. More time with your family (and for yourself)? Then reshape your career (including looking and thinking outside of the perhaps narrow path you are on. Maybe you'll fly less high. But then again maybe not. I think motherhood has focused me like nothing else. I have perspective on my job and I'm fearless at work now. Who knows where that might take me, especially when my kids are older.

Really want to kick on with your career? Get your husband to slow down and parent more, or if he doesn't want to, hire more help (live in nanny? housekeeper?). We've got a nanny that cooks for us and a twice a week cleaner. I outsource everything i can: I earn well, anytime i can buy back with money, I do. if I leave work late i get a taxi home to have an extra 15 mins with my children before bedtime.

I don't think you can have everything, but i do think you can have what's most important to you: you need to figure out what that is!