to think if the government want more mum's in work they need to do something about childcare costs

[wheresthelight]

unplanned pregnancy so no time to save and very ill prior and during pregnancy so was signed off by work's occupational health as unfit for work. due to a variety of issues I didn't go back and dp was adamant we could afford if we tightened reigns etc. due to car issues and Christmas plus dsd's school trips we have had an expensive few months but dp still treats himself to a £5 magazine every week and pays out for a gym membership he doesn't use. I do an admittedly expensive swimming class with dd (now 15 months) but I spend nothing on myself outside of this as I have no money. we get no benefits whatsoever and although dp is on a good wage by the time bills etc is paid there isn't a lot left.

he is stressing about money and I really want to go back to work but due to childcare costs it is proving almost impossible!! nursery is £££ whilst a childminder is not so bad however the job market round here is appalling. everything is either nursing or teaching and am not qualified for either. lots of home help type jobs but due to a disability I am unable to do this but even if I could the wages mean that I would be working for nothing by the time childcare is paid which negates the point of going back to work.

how the hell do people do this??

I do feel childcare is very expensive in this country, compared to others. If I was working full time, my entire 40K salary would be taken up by childcare for 2 pre-schoolers. That's a hell of a lot. I have friends in Australia, where you are able to claim back a percentage of your childcare costs, and in Scandanavia, where it is heavily subsidised.

It's all fine if you and/or your partner have flexible working/work from home & family support nearby. And again, if your family income can "take the hit" by effectively losing one salary. But if you don't, it's horrendously expensive. And many of us can't afford to run at a loss financially.

Nurseries & CM cost the same here - over £50 daily per child. There is no "cheap option" for childcare. And the so-called 15 hours "free" isn't that at all. My "free" hours translates as £500 for a 10 week term in nursery. Nothing over school holidays. Yes, it's better than nothing, but it's not a significant contribution to the costs.

And school nursery isn't any cheaper, as CM charge for the full day & here in Scotland very rarely have 15 hrs funding.

I wish people would just acknowledge how expensive & difficult childcare can be, rather than criticising OP for her lack of options.

We are really struggling. I'm facing going back in a year and Childcare for 2 kids will eat up my entire salary, for which I work around 60 hours a week.

Not entitled to any help other than cb.

I need to find a new job outside of mon-fri so I can avoid the Childcare bill. But this means my career will be interrupted as there is no way I can do my job part time.

Just fantastic.

What are the "lots of ways" the government can make childcare more affordable without raising taxes OP?

ilovesooty: perhaps means-testing all benefits, including state pension?

why think the govt wants more mums in work? unemployment rate is high anyway and sahms are not included in unemployment stats. cheaper for govt for sahms to sah surely?

What about employers - why are jobs often National Minimum Wage, flexible working, zero hour contracts, strange times of the day. Jobs used to be 9-5 Monday to Friday, or Mon-Tue, Thurs,Fri, Sat with shops closed on Wednesdays and Sundays.

These days with 24 hours opening in retail, longer opening hours of sales/support phone lines, many companies and organisations are having workers work outside of the 9-5 Mon-Fri.

What could Government do? Maybe they could keep increasing NMW so that it becomes more a Living Wage. How would employers react though, cut costs by employing less people, as their wage bill increases but there is no change to their turnover/payments coming in.

Could Government change business rates so that childcare providers were exempt? That could happen but someone has to pay for local services - so would that mean an increase in council tax for everyone?

If monthly childcare cost is £900, then from September 2015 Government will give 20% towards that, so parent pays £720 and Government tops it up by £180. This happens for children under 5 initially, rolling out to include those up to and including age 11 come Sept 2016. Max amount is £2000 per child, so max childcare cost of £10,000 (£2000 of which is paid by Government). This REPLACES the current childcare voucher scheme.
Find out more... Mumsnet: Tax-Free Childcare - Government Wants Your Views

The point is childcare has to be paid for and are people willing to pay more tax to enable this to happen. I think they are up to a point but I don't think free childcare for all is affordable. A lot of people do work for very little take home pay after all childcare expenses have been met. But they know it's not forever and the job will hopefully still be there when the childcare is no longer necessary.

Thank you lotsofcheese my point precisely. 40k a year. On childcare. Not clothes food etc. Our bill per year would be the same.

id like to see more business support for mums as entrepreneurs

Not having sahms looked at as idiots would be nice too. We aren't.

Who do you propose pays for your child to be looked after? Should I have to as a tax payer. I can't have children of my own. Should I have to pay for other people to choose to fave more children than they can afford to? Yes accidents happen but why should the everyday tax payer be responsible? Sorry if that's harsh. Its a touchy subject for me.

I don't think shops were ever closed all day Wednesday - only in the afternoon.

In any case the world has changed. There is no chance of going back to restricted shopping hours and the users of services expect more than they used to. It's no good hankering after what used to be. In those days many jobs were in practice closed to women so be careful what you wish for!

As for business rates why on earth should childminders be exempt when for example doctors' and dentists' surgeries are not?

When a decision is made to have a child then a hugely important part of that decision is whether you can afford to have that child.

Which means either not having one wage as a parent looks after the child or paying for childcare.

These calculations must be made before having a child. And that includes research childcare costs where you live. Everyone knows that there are costs involved. If you can't afford it, don't have children

No one wants to go back to how things used to be, we have to accept that things are the way they are now.

Reducing taxes for some and not others won't be seen as fair.

Giving more money towards things like childcare will reduce money going somewhere else, Government has to balance the budget according to the changing needs of the population. As population gets older, lives longer, then I see that more money is needed to go into healthcare, social services but will it happen?

If more money is spent by Government on things like childcare subsidy, then where does that money come from? Would all the population really want to pay more in taxes?

My employer offers part time roles at min wage, it's a national retailer, but expects employees to be able to work any day during the week (with four weeks notice of rota) which makes it impossible for anyone who needs to book regular childcare sessions. Not that the wages would cover childcare anyway.
the government could offer subsidies to employers offering family friendly terms (eg term time contract, school hours contracts)

Most will not though. Most high paid jobs expect you to devote your life to them and a lot of low paid jobs are service-based, which means that you have to be there when the customers are, which is all times really,

I honestly don't know how anyone affords to have children. I'm in the lucky position that my husband owes property which we rent out to give us a second income so that he doesn't have to work but without that we'd be stuffed really.

maggiethemagpie the government could offer subsidies to employers offering family friendly terms (eg term time contract, school hours contracts)

People without dependent family, people with no family at all, have private lives too, and their private lives are as important to them as yours is to you. The suggestion that the government, or rather the taxpayer, should subsidise employers to prefer one sort of private life over another is preposterous. Imagine what you were before BC, imagine what you will be like when your DC no longer need continuous care, and you will see what I mean.

Apart from anything else what you propose would push the burden of the early, late and weekend shifts onto a group who are disproportionately likely to be the youngest, the older, and the male workers - which is known as indirect discrimination.

Absolutely, Andrew

Slithy seriously you are angry that your children have interrupted your career plans?

Dh and I have worked all sort so FS of shift patterns and used various types of childcare over the years. - when there wasn't so much government help too. Dh has worked nights whilst I worked days plus at times the lower earner of us has sometimes worked for very little after childcare.
This meant though that we are both good earners now and have good pensions for the future. No way would we be in our secure position now if we hadn't compromised in the early days. We chose to have only two chidlren with an. 8 year gap so we could manage.

Tell me, do you really think my taxes should go towards your lifestyle? You are a. 3 child family with one wage earner and don't sound like you're doing badly.

I would rather my money go to helping people who cannot physically work or who have children who for whatever reason can't use childcare.

It didn't come across that she was angry that her children had disrupted her career but more that the point of keeping in working when your children are small is to get the benefits when they are older. Mine are both at school now and not only is my salary improved, my salary prospects of I changed jobs are better and most importantly to me I have reached a level of seniority that allows me a much greater degree of flexibility - if there is a school assembly for example, I just block the time out in my calendar, I can choose to come in early and leave early. I can work from home. These things are only possible now, when they are really important (at 2, for example my children did not know or care if they had missed out on something due to beig at work, but at 8 and 5 they absolutely do) because I went back to work at 9 months with DS1 and 10 months with DS2. To me, this is the biggest factor in favour of my decision.

These calculations must be made before having a child. And that includes research childcare costs where you live. Everyone knows that there are costs involved. If you can't afford it, don't have children

This is so ridiculous...childcare for my 2 children before they were at school age would have been £2000 a month where I live. I would have had to have had a job paying 2k a month after tax in order to break even...that's about a 35k salary to be no better off!

Yes, formerbabe. And that 2k per month for childcare alone doesn't include mortgage/rent, council tax, transport costs, food etc.

So you'd need about a 60k income to afford it. Since the equivalent of 40k income is taken up by childcare alone.

This is so ridiculous...childcare for my 2 children before they were at school age would have been £2000 a month where I live. I would have had to have had a job paying 2k a month after tax in order to break even...that's about a 35k salary to be no better off!

It enables people to remain in the workplace which is an investment in their future and if their is a husband/partner it should be a shared cost.

Who do you suggest finances people's childcare?

there not yjeir of course.

I was going to type "if their husband / partner is also investing in the family future"

Who do you suggest finances people's childcare?

No one. Wages are too low in this country and childcare is too expensive. Nursery workers are not paid generously so someone is getting rich from it!

Soontobesix I've not mentioned anger once...

Perhaps you meant to refer to another poster?