To think UKIP are wrong

[pauline6703]

People come to the UK because they are suffering abuse and disadvantage in their own countries.
I think we should offer then a safe place but UKIP seems to want to let them suffer abuse and pain. I think UKIP are wrong.
What do you all thing.

"We don't have unlimited resources." There isn't a fixed amount to go round divided by the number of people here. The more people contribute the more reduces we have.

Can you not see that?

Of course I understand the more people the more resources, ( and fwiw I'm not a ukip supporter in any way, I think there an awful party, who have some horrible ideas) but I disagree when it comes to housing, we have not build any were near enough houses to accommodate people, the result being extortionate rent prices and out of control house prices. So imho the amount of houses is pretty fixed.

UKIP are wrong because they spout bullshit about the effect of immigration on the British economy. It comes as no surprise to those of us who have been paying attention (and The Economist has been making this point for months, if not years) that a recent report out of UCL/University of Milan states that immigrants are bigger net contributors that native Brits to the British economy (i.e. they pay in more via taxes than they take via benefits), to the tune of something like £7 billion and counting.

It's bigotry and racism dressed up as concern for the economy. Christ knows what will happen to this country if UKIP get a critical mass of MPs. I think I would emigrate, I don't think I could stand to live here.

Asylum seekers aside, not everyone who comes to the UK suffers from abuse and disadvantage. Those from the EU are looking for more opportunities in the same way that British people who go to live in other parts of the EU are looking for opportunities. Many come to learn or practice the language.

It doesn't mean to say their situation was necessarily a problem where they were. Many earn more here so can send or take money home, to buy property there or start businesses. Of course they are fully entitled to do this but while they are here they need housing, health services and education for their children. The infrastructure of the country needs to accommodate extra people, so there is strain on resources such as the roads, transport,sewers etc.

In small country many feel the current situation is unsustainable and that numbers need more control. This does not mean they are racist or unwelcoming. I also feel the effects of immigration can impact on British families in very different ways.

I agree, OP.

Dennis Skinner in parliament today was spot on.

And I would like Ed Miliband to stop sucking up to racists as well. When I see a house festooned in St George's Cross flags when it's not even the bloody World Cup I don't think, as Ed Miliband says, 'respect'. I think 'that's a house where a racist lives'

The debate and discourse around immigration has gone mental- it is so, so far to the right and yet everyone pretends their concerns are 'reasonable'.

I could not stay in the UK if UKIP held any kind of balance of power- but where the hell could I go?!!

RiverTam-what does the study you mention class as benefits?

Is it just income support or do they include. housing, schooling, health care, transport costs, roads, police, recreation facilities, rubbish collection and other environmental services, interpreters, bi-lingual teaching assistants, the cost of providing information in many languages and the myriad of other services provided to individuals in this country?

Can you post a link to the research?

Dennis Skinner's point in the House of Commons today also highlights the fact that for years we have failed to train enough healthcare professionals, preferring to take the cheaper option and recruit those already trained abroad. This is unfair not only on the countries we recruit from but on our often very able young people who find themselves turned down for medical school and other health care training through lack of places.

Springheeled, I think you might find that most other countries you might go to are far more racist than the UK. This is one of the reasons so many people are happy to come here

Mr Reckless would be sending me home

But apparently he was just 'confused' after 'too many questions' according to Mr Farrage.

Ukip have supporters, just as the other political parties, their supporters deserve respect just we respect the views of those who follow other parties. The comments which accuse Ukip supporters of intolerance and insult them claiming they are have all types of prejudice will ultimately increase the support for the party. Ukip supporters probably are no more prejudiced than other parties, it's just a differnt sort of prejudice.

"The more people contribute the more resources we have."

It isn't quite that simple though is it? We cannot build houses, schools and hospitals at the same pace that people can potentially arrive and work and pay tax in the UK. And we cannot try and keep on doing so forever.

I would absolutely NOT vote for UKIP. But it seems that now with the rise of UKIP, the other main parties will have to think about the immigration issue. And perhaps people can actually debate it without being called racist or bigots. And I think that might be a good thing.

I thought the most recent study showed that migrants gave more £ to the country than they took out?

And what does 'british' mean exactly? Most people i know have at least one generation back to grandparents that were not uk born. What makes a british person british?

Not only that, but the picture of those two arseholes stood in my old local on the front page of the papers made me seethe tonight. Bearing in mind it was one of the leftiest pubs ive ever drunk in. Makes me weep. Ten bloody years i drunk in that place. Gone to the dogs now. literally.

The report *Rivertam mentions does indeed state that EEA migrants made a net contribution of £4.4 billion between 1995 and 2011.
The part of the report they "forgot" to mention also stated that Non-EEA migrants made a negative contribution of £117.9.
Suprisingly the Guardian overlooked this bit.

whats wrong is that politics in this country has just become something that is "done" to us, not something we all participate in. if UKIP are just the BNP with manners then how come the turnout was less than 50%! Make voting compulsory. make politicians serve for a maximum of 10 years as an MP so no one gets too cosy in their job and pension for life. make MP's have had jobs before they go into parliament.

well said gingham. I saw this too 117.9 minus 4.4 is not a small figure is it. too many of our national institutions are no longer fit for purpose. the introduction of UKIP into the political mix means that at last some people have woken up to the fact that things have to change. Love em, hate em, vote for them or oppose them. the most important thing is that politics is now back on the discussion agenda.

exciting times politically and socially imo.

It may be media scare mongering but our schools are stretched, our hospitals aren't coping. Housing is harder to find, and more expensive. We both work full time and still can't afford a house on the private sector.

If immigration remains uncontrolled where will these hordes of people live or go to school.

It's not racism it's practicality.

Of course they are wrong.

Re the next election you should all be considering very, very carefully how you vote. Sticking with your tribal choice of Tory, Labour, Lib Dem is not a sensible option. If your party has no or little chance then vote for whichever of the other 2 is most likely to beat UKIP.

If UKIP get in many Brits would emigrate I am sure. The irony!

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-24813467

Why oh why do people always lump immigrants together as poor/unemployed/asylum seekers.

We have huge swathes of immigrants contirbuting higher rate tax. Take the recent miidle class French influx escaping the tax increases back home. Many of these middle class immigrants are not just paying 45% tax on their salaries and contributing more than their share to the economy but sending their children to private schools and have private health care and therefore taking out less.

Then all the essential workers supporting the NHS. I could go on.

When will people understand we have an aging population that without young immigrants we would be in a worse position. We cannot sustain oursleves without immigration.

What we need is to invest in the infrastructure to support immigrants who in turn support our economy and aging population/pension deficit.

Why oh why do people always lump immigrants together as poor/unemployed/asylum seekers.

We have huge swathes of immigrants contirbuting higher rate tax.

YY

Well said goodnessgracious

YANBU they are very very wrong and most people know this

Maybe we need completely different terms for economic/lifechoice/freedom of movement migration and for asylum/desperation migration. The confusion between the two obscures many things.

Will the UKIP voters give up their right to move abroad too? Just saying!

Dear UKIP voters

"in the UK, the ratio of people of working age to people over 65 could fall from 3.7 to 1 in 1999 to 2.1 to 1 in 2040"

How do you intend to bridge this gap and support the aging population?

British to me means those who are born here. These like me,include second or third descendents of previous immigrants who have taken British citizenship after living, working and contributing here for a period of time.
These British people have a stake in the society they have helped to create. It is not as simple as where you live or the colour of one's skin.

It seems to me, that in a fair society, this commitment should be rewarded with an entitlement to all that British society has to offer. Things are not working in this way, too many British people of all colours, religions and cultures, find their access to housing and health services very difficult. Too many parents find that their place in the local or favoured school has been taken by recent arrivals. Too many children find themselves in classes where the majority of their classmates do not speak English.

Uncontrolled immigration is now a major problem, as all political parties are acknowledging, and many people feel, rightly or wrongly, that they are treated as second class citizens in their own country.

As for staffing the NHS, as I commented upthread, we do need to train more of our capable and British born young people so that we have less need to poach staff from other countries in the future.

And I would like Ed Miliband to stop sucking up to racists as well. When I see a house festooned in St George's Cross flags when it's not even the bloody World Cup I don't think, as Ed Miliband says, 'respect'. I think 'that's a house where a racist lives'

Yy, Spring. He is a disgrace. Sucking up to UKIP is the lowest of the low.

The immigration debate is so complex and emotive - I can see why people in certain areas despair at ggrowth of population where they live while resources are being decimated anyway. But then, I often help foreign students with their visa applications through work and I know how tough it can be to get through UKVI. I know men and women who have had to leave their young children behind in Libya or Iraq because they can't get visas for them but they might never get another chance to get their qualifications funded.

Tbh, up here in Scotland our immigration situation is not nearly as pressing as it is in more populous parts of England. If anything, we would probably benefit from more immigration! I hope our govt gets more power devolved in that area.