To not want my Grandchild to hunt?

[salsmum]

I am very much into animal rescue and hate to see cruelty against humans AND animals. DIL is pregnant with my 1st Grandchild which I'm obviously very excited about, I texted her today to ask how she was and how DS and 'bump' are and she said she was fine...etc.. and then excited tells me that her Nephew aged just a month into his 8th year is going out on his first hunt . Her family are country people and my DS will be moving to the country once GC comes along. I really hate the thought of any child going hunting especially my GC because I think it's not something a child should see nor be encouraged to take part in. My DIL knows my feelings on animal cruelty and feel upset that she should mention 'the hunt' to me (in an excited-so proud of DN way).

Why do you think that is worse than fishing? Do you eat fish?

Socially

The argument was 'advanced' 10 years ago.

Greengrow

Are you Chelsy in disguise?

How offensive Can't, that you think anyone who understands Chelsy's stance is a sockpuppet.

Very rude.

Get a grip Socially
It was tongue-in-cheek

Chelsy is calling anti hunt posters on here sociopaths.... if the cap fits.

No, please be accurate. I'm saying that some people who hijack animal welfare (and other emotive) causes for political reasons, or because they like to control people and don't have any other way to go about doing it, demonstrate some sociopathic traits.

While I might not share the views of antis, I do respect their right to hold them. I do think making comments about what colour and style of clothes people wear, when those clothes have a purpose in that environment, and using words like "glee" and "thigh slapping" are really cringeworthy. I certainly don't think they are sociopaths (I hardly know them all) and I certainly don't think all people who hunt are paragons of virtue (I don't know them all).

I've watched "A Minority Pastime" and really there is nothing that bad in it. How you can watch something like that on You Tube and not educate yourself about cruel UK slaughter practices and then call yourself an animal lover, I cannot understand. But then again I can't understand people who see hunts everywhere but can't see animal transporters on roads.

Its like a horsy friend of mine I had once...she used to berate me for being cruel for hunting, all 3 times I did it, then had her horse put to sleep a couple of weeks after it got a tendon injury, even though it might have recovered in time, just so she didn't have to go for a long period without riding.

MrsDeVere Lots of people who live in the country hate hunting but felt unable to admit it due to the horrible things that can happen if you stick your neck out when you live in a small community.

I agree with you. Theres also a lot of people out there who have a chip on their shoulders and I wouldn't necessarily believe everything they come out with. But I think you make an interesting point - people tend to align themselves in groups, because that's where they feel safest, and not talk to each other. You would I guess have a hard job talking about hunting with many people who hunt because security is so high. People who are into animal welfare will probably be welcomed with open subscriptions by animal rights groups by contrast. And never the twain shall meet.

Then again, in most new places you would be expected to integrate yourself to make new friends...

Its very telling that you whinge that drag hunting is just not good enough. You have to have an animal to terrorise and slaughter to make it fun.

Look, I just don't want to drag hunt, OK! I might hunt again, if I ever get round to it. Drag hunting is just not something I have any interest in doing. For someone who used to be a groom, you have remarkably little understanding of the type of horses used for hunting and drag hunting, and the variety of activities out there. Maybe not everyone shares your hunting obsession?

You're a bit of an odd one, aren't you Cantbelieve?

Chelsy
The vast majority of people in the UK do not support hunting because they view the pastime with revulsion. Politics has to come into it because that is how we bring about change. And that change was brought about in 2004.

Some sectors of society do in fact need to be controlled. Why you then link that to sociopathic tendencies is simply stunning. Well done.

Of course I would not expect you or your like to see anything wrong with A Minority Pastime.

It is not a given that we need to 'respect the rights of people to hold an opinion'. That is utter bullshit for a whole plethora of reasons that I just cannot be arsed to go into on here.

Assuming this who oppose hunting do not adopt the same attitude and level of interest to other animal welfare issues is quite frankly laughable. aGAIN, Well done on that one.

The last point you made about your friend's horse probably puts you on the same intellectual level as a tomato when it comes to arguing your point.

You're a bit of an odd one, aren't you Cantbelieve?

Took your time.......... but there it is.

"You have never heard of cultural traditions, the countryside and the concept of reasonableness? I can see you have a good idea of how to balance tolerance and equity right there. My God. This place really is becoming a repository of the bizarre."

Yes, I've heard of all those things. You seem to have completely missed the point I was making, which is that the statement '"I also did it because I didn't want to be one of those ignorant people who condemns something they haven't tried" is completely illogical. It says that you can only condemn activities that you yourself have tried. Just a moment's thought shows that that cannot possibly true: all of us, all the time (including you, no doubt) condemn things we haven't tried.

It's a really simple point of logic. I'm sorry you didn't understand it. If you still don't understand it, I will try again, but I'm not sure how to simplify it further.

hack

Your logic is also lost of me..... please explain again.

Well OP, I agree with most others. However you feel, you need to swallow it as it's not your call. I'm sure your DIL wasn't rubbing our face in it but was excited and proud.

With regard to hunting - many people have said it already. It is illegal to deliberately track and kill a fox but it can happen inadvertently. Most hunts are monitored.

The thing is if most people agree that fox populations need to be controlled as their natural predators (bears and wolves) were wiped out years ago, then surely the actual death of the fox is a detail. I don't like the idea of any animal being killed, and I don't take glee in it. But I don't like old, sad, mangey foxes taking out lambs while the ewes desperately try and scare them by stamping their feet. I don't like foxes being injured by inaccurate shooting and dying slowly, in great pain (and they're bloody hard to shoot), or being gassed.

I think that mainly fox hunting killed the old and the unhealthy, and although probably a terrifying death (unfortunately most animal deaths are), it is short and certain once the animal is wounded.

I also totally understand that there is an exhilaration in flying across unknown countryside and jumping hedges in a pack - quite aside from the fox aspect. It is fun to meet on a clear and frosty morning, eat cake and go for a brilliant ride. It doesn't make you a sociopath to feel that.

"Your logic is also lost of me..... please explain again."

You said that people shouldn't condemn something that they haven't tried (in this case, hunting). My point is that we all of us condemn things we haven't tried: paedophilia, female genital mutilation, murder, to name but a few.

It is therefore unreasonable to say that people shouldn't condemn things they haven't tried. If that were applied as a general principle, then laws would never get made because the people responsible for making laws would be condemning something they had never tried.

Luckily, that situation doesn't prevail, because most people have moral principles that mean they don't need to try something out before forming the opinion that it's wrong. If you take female genital mutilation as an example, it tends to be defended on the basis of being a traditional part of some cultures - the exact same argument you're making in favour of hunting. But if you think cruelty to children is always wrong, then you will tend to the view that FGM is wrong. (By the way, don't get hung up on the fact that FGM isn't like hunting - the point is that the principle is the same.)

You said that people shouldn't condemn something that they haven't tried

I never said that. You have me mixed up with someone else.

I think that mainly fox hunting killed the old and the unhealthy, and although probably a terrifying death (unfortunately most animal deaths are), it is short and certain once the animal is wounded.

Research cub hunting (Sorry...Autumn Hunting.... the CA changed the name to make it palatable)

A short death..... the CA would like us to believe that.
Terrifying.... absolutely.

I know about cubbing, cant. You are right, that does not fulfil the 'old' criteria.

It really doesn't matter about the ins and outs-as grandmother you can only give advice-if asked.

I'm not going to get into the bunfight about fox hunting, but I did what to pick up what a PP said:
Nobody needs to hunt in the country.
Um. Since we have wiped out the other top predators, someone DOES need to hunt or the deer population would have a lot of problems: too many deer = overuse of available forage = damage to the ecosystem = damage to other wildlife.

It was always a political issue. If it's furry and cute and supposedly engaged in by posh people then Labour banned it. If it's ugly with scales and more people fish than watch football then you don't protect the fish. Fox - looks cute so may not hurt unless you shoot it when it's fine, fishing - absolutely fine. What a mess our law is.

Labour of course made an utter mess of the ban and we have a typical British fudge over the issue now.

I would certainly prefer the current complicated law be abolished.

The ban on hunting was brought in because a majority of the electorate wanted it. Sadly the majority of the electorate do not want a ban on fishing. Me, I'd ban fishing. I'd make eating fish illegal. Like a shot. But since it isn't illegal, banning fishing would be difficult since many anglers eat what they catch, and other anglers throw back what they catch (how the fish fare afterwards having had part of their mouths torn out is a subject for debate of course). But it would be a more complex issue even if the public supported a ban - and they don't. So to bring it up is to reveal yourself as no more than a CA shill.

It was always a political issue. If it's furry and cute and supposedly engaged in by posh people then Labour banned it.

Oh FFS..... really??

Been following this thread with interest. Those who are anti-hunting - are you anti-hunting anywhere? Or just in the UK where it's foxes and deer and there are perceived class issues around the hunt? Genuinely want to know.

I've hunted in Italy for wild boar. We did it on foot, with guns and a couple of dogs. My grandmother taught me how to shoot. Boars are dangerous and very destructive, so the population needs to be kept in check. Yes, I do enjoy the whole thing - getting up at the crack of dawn with a strong coffee, out into the cold air, using all our senses (smell, sound, sight) to track the boar (which can sometimes take hours), and yes, if I'm honest, there is a primal thrill when the boar is finally killed. The entire carcass is shared out and cooked - it's a huge community occupation - and there's lots of communal feasting.

Why is this a bad thing?