10 yr old on a bus

[moomooland01]

AIBU to think that a 10 yr old is to young to travel 6 miles in a bus to McDonald's with his 12 yr old brother is to young?
They've been at dads this weekend and I've just found out.
I can see it now "here's 20 quid get out of my sight"

I don't think it sounds bad tbh. If they knew what stop to get off I can't see the problem.

I just don't think that after dark is inherently worse than during daylight. The solar day does not impact on the morality of strangers.

I'm sure it does Tara I don't know where to look for figures but I bet there are more crimes after dark than before.

Claw you aren't alone in this. Not by a long shot. Just depends who is around with threads like this.

If the 10 & 12 year olds asked if they could do this, to meet up with some friend I would consider it depending on the town, bus route etc, but there's no way I'd be happy with what the Op's ex did. No way.

So much depends on how and where you were brought up and where you live now. There are parts of the country I'd be happy with the kids going into town on their own and parts of the country I wouldn't be happy with them going out of the front door on their own.

Some 10 year olds are sensible, some have no sense.

Too many variables to say ALL of them should/shouldn't do this.

Of course more crime is done 'under the cover of darkness' for god sake logic alone will tell you that.

I think it's sensible to practise getting around your local area. Many 12 year olds have a long walk to and from a school bus, the bus is the least of their worries in winter.

Chipping thanks for helping me not feel loopy!

My ten year old will have a safe walk of about half a mile to secondary school....she lives near the shops and goes alone to those...I'm obviously not hiding her away. But she seems VERY young to me...she's not younger than her peers in behaviour but there is plenty of time for children to be given freedom...why rush it when they're so young?

OP you know your children, you know whether it is an area they are familiar with etc. If it were my dc in an unfamiliar area, doing a journey they did rarely then absolutely, I would agree with you. if it's a journey they do regularly, then i think you may come across a bit precious if you are relying on it in court. Either way have some , not an easy time for you.

Chipping is right Claw - so many variables. However given where I was brought up (Belfast) how you're describing things sounds OTT & like your 10yr old is your eldest / only. It is all relative & very dependent on individuals & location etc but from the Ops limited description, what the ex did doesn't sound wrong to me.

Oh OK we live overseas and it's normal here for kindergarten children (age 4) to walk to and from school alone. So with much older children it doesn't bother me, and with shorter days in winter, if you never went out in the dark, well you'd hardly go out. But I guess it's different in the UK. So. I still don't think this is something to use against their father.

Oh God, I've laughed aloud so much at Worra and Claws posts!

Claw, I must say not being allowed out in the dark until 15 is really, really strange. I've honestly never heard of anyone who was that restricted. I played out in my street in the dark from about 6, train and 20 min walk to school (in the dark!) from 11. Certainly was allowed to get buses and trains to town with my friends from 10 ish. I was by no means unusual.

OP -I think if you complain about this in court you'll do much more harm to yourself than good.

Tara - it's so completely different here. I think you really have to live in some places in the UK to realise it really is not safe to have 10 year olds going out alone, let alone in the dark into town. If you have only ever lived in a nice place in the UK it's probably hard to accept it's not the same all over the UK and if you live somewhere like you do, I think it's virtually impossible. I lived overseas, somewhere much like you do now, and it was so totally different (lovely and I miss it, but sadly it's changing there too :( ).

By after dark, do you mean 10 at night or 4.30 in the afternoon? Because if the former YANBU, if the latter, YABU.

I still think the after dark thing is a bit off, but you know your towns and if they go from being safe places during daylight hours to dangerous places in the evening, I'll have to take your word.
Op I don't think that you should attempt to use this in court.

I think that most people in the UK would find it unacceptable that a 10 yo and a 12 yo were given £20 & made to get themselves into town to buy their dinner. Most people here would see that as irresponsible parenting or neglect. Many town centres really are not safe for children on their own, particularly after dark.

It depends on the children, the area, and their familiarity with public transport, as well as their 'street smarts'.

If they've rarely used buses before, and haven't been on that journey before, it's entirely inappropriate. And, I think there's a large difference in maturity between 10 and 12 year olds. As well as the consideration for whether the 12 yr old should have to have responsibility for their 10yr old sibling.

I've known 12 yr olds who would be fine with this, as well as a 17 yr old who still couldn't do this safely and without fear and distress.

I agree with the PP who strongly suggests that it's not okay for most ten yr olds to do out after dark unaccompanied by an adult. And yes, most 10 yr olds are small and vulnerable.

Well it depends on the 10 yr old for example I was terrified of my own shadow at 10 and still believed in father Christmas, put me on a bus at 10 I'd have got lost.
However my dsis was literally travelling all over (insert we I'm from her) when she was 10.

MUCH more likely to be unsafe for adult young men, statistically.

'Between 5-7pm' presumably means setting off at 5pm (a time when shops are open, families about) & back by 7pm (before bedtime). It's hardly prime time for a pubs closing punch up...

Also, bus in, brightly lit town centre, eat MaccyDs, bus back - it's not exactly a Duke of Edinburgh expedition.

It's been dark enough to need street lights on from about 3pm onwards here (foggy November Yorkshire), & indoor lights in some rooms all day. Not really practical to avoid all normal activities all day.

I think a 12 & 10 year old would be absolutely fine doing this.

But I'd be pretty bloody pissed off if I were their mother & dh unilaterally decided this was a thing we now allowed, without consulting me, so I'm going with a YANBU.

Timefor why is it worse after dark?

Uhm, because that's when most crime happens? It's not a hard leap.

I'd say it depends on your kids. They were together, and they were obviously fine. Hopefully they have a cell so they can call if something comes up.

12 is about the time kids start hanging out without adult supervision in short bursts like at the mall or indoor parties.

I think it depends on the kids. I'm an adult in my 30s, and I've never ridden on a public bus; I'd have no idea what to do. But if the kids are mature and are familiar with riding on a bus, it's probably ok.

The solar day does not impact on the morality of strangers.

You're naive, or deliberately being dense.

Night doesn't affect a person's moral compass, but it does impact on when those morally questionable strangers come out of the woodwork. It also impacts whether these morally questionable strangers will be caught or not.

A the guise of darkness makes it easier to hide and get away.

If you were a criminal, would you attack someone when they and other witnesses could easily see your face, or would you do it at night when they couldn't?

Also, after hours is when people hit the pubs, so they're more likely to be drunk and using questionable judgement.

Have they done the journey before ? How do they feel about it ? Like many others on here I took myself to school and back on public transport from 11 and sometimes did after school activities which ended after dark. When I was 16 I went to sixth form college and met a boy who had been up classed so was still 15, he couldn't get himself around and always wanted to be met it was a pain and we teased him mercilessly.

Did your boys enjoy the trip?

If my boys are together and know the route I let them walk to places 1/2 hour away. I live right in the city centre so they don't need to get a bus. They are 11 and 13.

We have never changed rules here for early evening darkness otherwise they couldn't even walk back from after school clubs in the winter. It is dark, not late.

It may be your boys are a wee bit young, but it is not really clear you can use this again your ex.

Depends on if the child is used to it. In london some children travel on the bus to school alone. Some change buses as well. Your ds did his brother with him.

Surely the older one is in Y7/8 at secondary and has to get to/from school on their own every day?

TBH, I wouldn't be so bothered by them getting the bus by themselves, but I would be sad that their dad had sent them off on their own on a weekend when he was having contact and meant to be spending time with them.