To not want ds singing the bloody national anthem every day at school?

[lecce]

I am reeling about this and would love some opinions.

Last night the dc and I were taking it turns to play songs on Youtube, when ds1 (7, Yr 3) announced he wanted 'Land of Hope and Glory' for his next choice . I was stunned - I didn't even know he'd heard of it. In the interrogation that followed, it transpired that his class has been singing 'God Save the Queen' every day before home time. It has no relation to their current topic, which is India, of all things... Mention has been made of 'loving our country' and that, as 'we are English' we should know these lyrics.

On Friday, those who had completed their art work early were given the lyrics of 'Land of...' (not ds - never have I been so happy about his lack of artistic talent) but, apparently, they will all be 'doing' it soon.

I absolutely do not want my children singing these nationalistic, jingoistic lyrics every day. I don't want the school promoting this kind of cheap patriotism to them, either. This is not what education is about.

Is this Gove's fault? I am a teacher (sec) and have heard nothing about this particular type of brainwashing. AIBU to kick up a stink about this?

And what of the British people who don't want to do it?

Why would people want something introduced into schools that will cause upset, anger and division? Totally unnecessarily. Why?

So that some people can single out who should "go home" maybe?

The more I think about it the more I think that the people advocating for this really want to be able to identify who is "with them" and who is not.

The good reasons aren't all about being an immigrant. Both DH and I would be horrified if the kids were expected to sing GSTQ (or land of hope and glory) in school on any regular basis. We're both british (born here and everything). DH is english, even.

I'm very English as well (incredibly dull family tree on "where are your family from" things at school) and I'd be, well, baffled and a bit concerned if they started doing this at DDs school.

This type of thing is not what I think of when I think about celebrating my culture and society. Not by a long bloody chalk.

I would hate it, hate tribes, patrotic jingoism, it is what allows the people in power to declare war against "the others" far to easily.

Lol at fluffling's and others' outrage.

National pride, innit? Great fucking stuff.

Seven,

It was me who said daily singing of GSTQ is being brought in as compulsory in our LA.

Yes, you're quite right, CatWithKittens - your mindless spewing of nonsensical platitudes coupled with copying out some of the national anthem really puts you head and shoulders above All Of Mumsnet.

Which LEA raffe? (If you don't mind saying).

cruikshank - I would certainly not claim that; however I do know the difference between intelligent debate and mindless insult, and between the latter and humour. Perhaps you should try to make the same distinctions, if possible.

I attempted to get intelligent debate going, before you started on with your 'we are the best in the world and look I'm going to type out a bit of the national anthem because that proves it' shtick. Nobody addressed my points, and I'm sorry but I just cannot take what you say seriously.

SaucyMare, I don't mind tribes, per se. I think humans have always been tribal. Co-opting those tribal feelings, in order to build allegiance to an artificially-created border, particularly in order to require people to die in the name of an artificially-created border - that, yes, I do have a problem with.

Like I said, the nation state is a relatively new concept. What does cheer me about the world we're in now, with the ongoing technological revolution, is that people are finding other tribes, and those tribes are global. People are connecting with each other in all kinds of different ways, and forming other allegiances. In some ways, that can be bad, like with the jihadis or the mercenaries from other countries who go and fight for Israel, etc. But in other ways, it's good. Look at the effect that social media has had on various protest movements, especially eg in Turkey. I would like to think that this is something that will challenge the (anthropologically speaking) recent concept of the nation state, especially given the utter damage that nation-state thinking has done to millions around the world, including here in the UK.

And you addressed my points did you? Misplaced insulting crudity does not do that. Moreover if you had read my post properly you would have noticed that I simply asked if children being led to believe that this country is better than many others was objectively wrong. Nothing there than I can see about being best in the world or the National Anthem proving it but you chose not to engage with the real argument or deal with my point but to sling what the lawyers call "mere vulgar abuse", without, incidentally, knowing that, given my relationship with DH, masturbation does not have to come into my life - and, even if it did, combining it with typing would hardly give much satisfaction.

YANBU OP, haven't waded through the whole thread but I would be pissed off if my children were being made to sing GSTQ at school (given that I/we don't believe in god and I'm rather about the monarchy.

I'm surprised how many people think OP is being UR. Not sure how being unhappy that your children have to sing the national anthem means that people are not proud of their nationality (but fuck it, there are probably plenty of people that live in Britain that aren't particularly proud of Britain and its history!).

And yes to the poster who said that Remembrance Sunday shouldn't be a patriotic time, for me (and my children), it is a time to think about everyone who has died in war, not just those on our side.

Bolton

www.theboltonnews.co.uk/news/11155360.Bolton_schools_WILL_be_encouraged_to_fly_union_flag_and_sing_national_anthem/

No matter what you combined with your typing, it wouldn't satisfy anyone, that's true.

'This country' exists because war, conflict and strife brought it into being. It exists because that's the way the political cards fell. And even then, the concept of 'this country' is not straightforward. Ask a decent cross-section of the population what 'this country' consists of, and what it should consist of, and you will get a decent cross-section of answers. That's what I mean; the nation state is an arbitrary delineation come about for political reasons that have nothing to do with the ordinary person who resides in it. As such, I do not see what there is to be 'proud' about, much less what there is to sing about.

Cruikshank - despite all you say you still have not addressed my central point. Whatever may be the history which got us here, are you saying that, objectively, our children are not far more fortunate to be born and brought up here than in may other places and that we should not be grateful for that and for the fact that, however imperfect our society may be in absolute terms, we still have a lot for which to be thankful and about which to sing, whilst still wishing for improvement both here and abroad?

"many other places" - perhaps I'd be better doing something else whilst typing.

I think it would be more accurate to sing songs about how great it is to be a rich nation, rather than to think we are great because we are in the country we are in. It just doesn't make sense to me.

And I suppose while we're singing about how great it is to be a rich nation, we should at least have a few verses about the other poor countries we robbed and plundered in order to get ourselves rich, rather than congratulating ourselves on how fucking wonderful we are because of the name of our country.

And 'our Queen' is fucking German anyway.