To think this is intrusive and creepy?

[kiritekanawa]

I commute about two hours a day on suburban trains in Paris. It's quite creepy and unsettling to watch the gender politics being played out every day.

Women sit with their bottom at the back of the seat, so their knees don't jut out, so they take up as little room as possible in a 4-seater bit where 2 people face 2 people (which is how most of the seats are arranged on these particular commuter trains).

Men, usually young men, frequently sit opposite women, slide their backside to the edge of the seat, spread their legs wide, and if sitting opposite a woman, put their feet either side of the woman's legs. Then they stare at the woman. If the woman gets up to get off the train, they often won't move their legs, so she has to clamber over them. It's deliberate intrusion. I very rarely see men so tall that their legs would stick out that much naturally if they actually sat up straight - and I know this, I have seen various extremely tall friends sit on these seats without intruding on the space opposite.

This is totally unnecessary, and really rude. Or, possibly, it is totally normal, and I am an uptight Engleesh bitch who needs a f*, as I was told this morning when I politely asked the man opposite me (young enough to be my son, incidentally) to sit up and not surround my legs with his legs, explaining that many women found it a bit too intrusive. Yuck.

[WitchWay]

[GreenMouse]

Werewolf I can assure you it's a lot worse on the Paris Metro than on the London Tube. Obviously you get the space invaders on the Tube as well but the actual harassment is nowhere near the scale of what women have to endure on the Metro. By all accounts it hasn't improved in the last 25 years, if anything it seems worse :(

[GreenMouse]

How awful VonHerr :(

[GreenMouse]

Brussels is pretty bad too, once I was sexually assaulted on the street there and was laughed out of the police station when I reported it :(

[EmilyGilmore]

Surely this doesn't happen in London? I've travelled for years on the tube and never encountered it. Well, the sitting legs apart thing of course, but not the aggression and sexual abuse. I really think Londoners are generally very polite on public transport.

The RER is a different kettle of fish though, I remember it well. It serves some very deprived areas outside Paris, I would hate to take it alone. Poor OP.

[TakemedowntoPotatoCity]

I witnessed a late night masturbator on the RER to St Germain En Laye. Luckily I was in a group and we all got off together at the next stop.

Also stuck on the metro with a nutter shouting 'je suis nerveux. JE SUIS NERVEUX' - everyone got off there too...

[PhaedraIsMyName]

Take their pictures and add them to this site:

movethefuckoverbro.tumblr.com

Most of them are awful but there is a small number of blokes shamed who really weren't doing anything wrong.

[werewolfinladderedtights]

Greenhouse I have to beg to differ. There was a very enlightening article recently published regardingvthis very subject on the London tube
There was a very long discussion on Digital Spy's general discussion forum. I'm on my phone atm, but when I can I will come back from my laptop with links
I'm not dismissing the situation in Paris at all. I am however saying it's world wide IMO.

[werewolfinladderedtights]

I had a smart suited banker rub against my Bum on the Jubilee line. It was a busy train. I went ape shit and told him to back the Fuck away.
He got of the next stop.
I've intervened twice on the London underground when I've seen women being subjected to abuse.
It's not limited to France by any means.

[JessieMcJessie]

I remember waiting at a suburban RER station (posh area, I was an au pair) and a bloke pulled up in his car by the railing facing me, swung his legs out to the side and began to toss himself off. A middle aged, well dressed bloke in a nice car. in broad daylight. There was a train track between us but I still felt pretty violated.

[Callani]

Even with the experiences I've had, I've gotta say I'm seriously shocked by the masturbation stories! Honestly, what is wrong with these men?!

[Popsandpip]

These stories are awful! Anyone got some anecdotes about where they confronted the perpetrators? What happened? Would be good to hear some positive stories of women asserting themselves (not that I have any to share myself).

[Suzannewithaplan]

Also utterly shocked by the horrific public jerking off, what kind of proto hominid does that?

?It's what you'd expect to see in a zoo ?

[PetiteRaleuse]

The last time if happened to me the bloke was sat next to me and just suddenly pulled it out. The métro wasn't packed but was far from empty. He just looked like a normal bloke.

I stood up and shouted something along the lines of "how dare you, you are disgusting. Ugh. Gross. What the fuck is wrong with you?" all the while standing over him so people could see who I was shouting out.

Then as I walked up the carriage I shouted out what he had done. People loudly agreed it was disgusting, tutted, called him a pervert and a couple of youngish guys came up to me - one of them went to the bloke and told him to get off the fucking train at the next stop, the other checked I was ok and was just generally sweet.

The bloke got off the train and scarpered pdq, the young blokes stayed with me being all scary suburban about him but being v sweet to me until my journey was over, and lots of people as they got off the train along the journey smiled at me or asked if I was ok.

[IAmNotDarling]

I've experienced space invaders in Mexico City on the metro and busesShort men at chest level falling into my boobs. Thank goodness I wasn't there long.

Barcelona and Madrid don't appear to have these problems. Ditto Berlin where everyone was very respectful and polite on the U and S Bahn!

[GreenMouse]

Werewolf I'm not suggesting these things don't happen on the Tube, but in my experience, certainly not to the extent that they happen on the Metro. In Paris there was scarcely a public transport journey that didn't have some kind of physical or verbal harassment or, indeed, the odd public masturbator. That hasn't been my experience in London at all, and I spent years with a long commute on packed Tube trains with that kind of thing happening only very rarely (and never any block pulling it out and jerking off in public).

Also another difference is that in Paris most of the women seem kind of resigned to this kind of thing happening and for the most part don't say anything, which is very sad.

[GreenMouse]

bloke, not block obviously...

[kiritekanawa]

Popsandpip- see above re the results of confrontation for when I told an RATP (integrated Parisian public transport services) employee, in uniform, to stop smoking on the train...

PetiteRaleuse seems to have had a better outcome re confrontation, though started from a much worse event.

[WhatWouldCaitlinDo]

I went to Uni in France and was harassed daily. The two worst things that happened to me were a guy wnking opposite me on the train, and another time I was in a phone box (tells you how long ago this was!) and a guy leaned against the door so I couldn't get out and wnked. Uni was AWFUL for being followed, we complained to the authorities and their response was "you must be doing something to attract attention. Anyway, you should be flattered."

[Suzannewithaplan]

how about pepper spray for public wankers?

[Suzannewithaplan]

or deep heat spray?

[VerityWaves]

Men do this to me constantly on the trains here.
Sit with their legs almost around me it's disgusting and never questioned is it?

[Delphine31]

I lived in Paris for a year. (Like many other posters have mentioned here, Paris didn't even remotely live up to my expectations.)

Something I noticed is that in Paris very few women wear skirts. I puzzled over this when I was there but I'm now wondering if it's because they feel they will make themselves a more likely target for the kinds of grotesque behaviour mentioned on this thread.

In my year there though I have to say that I didn't experience any threatening/unpleasant behaviour from men of the types described here; their gaze following me as I walked past was the only thing of this sort.

I lived in London (and loved living there) for seven years and felt very safe the vast majority of the time, including traveling on night buses, and frequently walking home 2-3 miles after an evening out.

[KERALA1]

St Malo the city of perves. There as a geeky 14 year old on french exchange there 3 days each day I was either flashed at or wanked at by different men. Lived in London 6 years nothing. Dh and I mildly beaten up and mugged on metro didn't use it after that

[Inkanta]

I would have thought women in Paris would be more ballsy and no nonsense than that. I know I wouldn't be be very meek and mild in a situation like that - if their legs were sprawled at either side of mine!