....to ask what you think of white poppies (Remembrance-related)?

[PlumpingUpPartridge]

I had been dimly aware of the existence of white poppies but hadn't really given them much thought until DH mentioned them this weekend. I checked out the website and saw this:

linky

I liked this quote:

"In 1933 the first white poppies appeared on Armistice Day (called Remembrance Day after World War Two). The white poppy was not intended as an insult to those who died in the First World War - a war in which many of the white poppy supporters lost husbands, brothers, sons and lovers - but a challenge to the continuing drive to war. The following year the newly founded Peace Pledge Union began widespread distribution of the poppies and their annual promotion."

I am very happy to express my admiration and respect for those who died in wars, but I don't particularly want to see any more wars. I don't know what the alternative is, but I'd like to see more effort go into finding it.

I've been sifting through the threads and noticed some anti-white poppy feeling (along the lines of 'it's disrespectful'). I didn't grow up here so don't have childhood experience to guide me on this. Please can you tell me what you think of it and, if you think it's disrespectful, why?

I'm not a journalist by the way, just curious and trying to be impartial

I was brought up to believe all wars were basically a con perpetrated by evil old men. I think there's some truth in that.

I wonder what the world would be like if we had let the WWI and II German armies run roughshod over Europe and the rest of the world?

I wear a red and a white poppy.

I wear both. I was asked about it today in class and said I wear the red to honour the sacrifice that so many made (whether justified or not) and the White to express my hope that at some time in the future there may be a world without war.

This popped up on my Facebook feed recently

I know people who wear white poppies and do so following careful, considered, educated thought. Some are ex-military, some are not. None of them are ignorant or sanctimonious.

My dd has a poppy bracelet and on the back it says "shoulder to shoulder with all who serve". This makes me very uncomfortable. The conflation of remembering the WW1 dead with support for modern military action has in itself muddied the symbolism of the poppy. There is a huge grey area of debate with good arguments on both side. It can't be reduced down to white poppy wearers are smug shites any more than red poppy wearers glorify war. Politicised manoeuvres on all sides make it a difficult debate to have.

I wear a poppy. I struggle with it though.

I actually find purple poppies the disrespectful ones.......

I agree that the government should be providing everything ex-service personnel need, but they don't, not by a long shot. This country has a very poor attitude towards it's military veterans, preferring to keep them out of sight and out of mind.

I don't buy red poppies anymore though I wouldn't wear a white one. In recent years they seem to have gone from remembering the dead to 'support our troops' who have been (through no fault of their own) involved in conflicts they should never have been sent to.

yy Percy

Why do you find purple poppies disrespectful?

I understand the sentiment behind white poppies. However, I do not think that Remembrance day is the time to be wearing them. A Peace Day would be more appropriate.

shoulder to shoulder with all who serve

Why does it make you uncomfortable showy?

The poppy symbolises remembrance for those who made huge sacrifices for us as a people. Now we can argue about foreign expeditions but the people who died in the last world war were doing so precisely so that you today can sleep soundly in your bed tonight. presumably glowing with smug self satisfaction about eschewing a quid in a tin for a poppy.

The trouble is, though, that it's not limited to those who served in the last war, is it? According to the RBL, it's also to show support for current serving soldiers. There is a difference between conscripts and those who volunteered during the last world war for very good reasons, and those who have chosen to go into the armed forces as a career today.

Because putting humans and animals on an equal footing is hugely disrespectful.

I didn't realise that there was such contempt for white poppy wearers.
I'm quite shocked.
Both my parents served in WW11, they would never have been disgusted by white poppy wearers.

My Mum used to wear an anti Iraq war badge every day with great pride when she was in her 70s.

Fuckertsmuckery sums it up for me.

The trouble is, though, that it's not limited to those who served in the last war, is it? According to the RBL, it's also to show support for current serving soldiers.

And that is trouble why...? Personally I am happy to show support for anyone who is willing to put themselves on the front line to protect others.

There is still sacrifice.
There is still great loss.

But howl, past actions are not necessarily the best choice for the modern day. We'd still be chopping heads off criminals and scolding the poor for being born poor at that rate.

And having just read abut the PPU support for the appeasement of Hitler (something they have in common with the Daily Mail), I can't imagine why anyone would give them money.

"Some PPU supporters were so sympathetic to German grievances that one member, Rose Macaulay, claimed she found it difficult to distinguish between the propaganda of the PPU and that of the British Union of Fascists (BUF), saying, "Occasionally when reading Peace News, I (and others) half think we have got hold of the [BUF journal] Blackshirt by mistake."[10][11] There was Fascist infiltration of the PPU[12] and MI5 kept an eye on the PPU's "small Fascist connections".[13] After Dick Sheppard's death in October 1937, George Orwell, always hostile to pacifism, accused the PPU of "moral collapse" on the grounds that some members even joined the BUF.[14] The historian Mark Gilbert said, "it is hard to think of a British newspaper that was so consistent an apologist for nazi Germany as Peace News," which "assiduously echoed the nazi press's claims that far worse offences than the Kristallnacht events were a regular feature of British colonial rule."[15] David C. Lukowitz said that, "it is nonsense to charge the PPU with pro-Nazi sentiments. From the outset it emphasised that its primary dedication was to world peace, to economic justice and racial equality," but it had "too much sympathy for the German position, often the product of ignorance and superficial thinking."[8]"

They also campaigned against air raid precautions at the outbreak of WW2. Fortunately no one took much notice it would seem.

But howl, past actions are not necessarily the best choice for the modern day. We'd still be chopping heads off criminals and scolding the poor for being born poor at that rate.

Where did I say anything of the sort?

Anyway, this argument will run exactly the same way as it always has every single year.

As others have repeatedly said, the red poppy now has the dual purpose of remembering the fallen of WW1 AND supporting those who serve today. If you want to do the former and not the latter, it is an uncomfortable choice. You can have deep respect for the fallen AND not support the modern military. The red poppy presumes you do both.

I think remembersnce is about my grandad who died of heart disease in 1959 after being gassed in the First World War.

My great uncle who slit his throat with a knife 2 weeks after grandad died as he couldn't face life without his mate. He had PTSD but obviously not diagnosed then.

My dm who was evacuated during Ww 2 and suffered dreadfully at the cruel hands of those supposed to be protecting her,

My lads 18 year old friend Rob who was blown op and died in Afghanistan 6 years ago.

My guess is the self indulgent musings on which colour poppy to wear would disgust them as they do me.

Why would you not support the military. I don't mean in a flag waving, yee haw American kind of way. I mean in the way most people support the police, or the fire service? In fact, the RAF do a heck of a lot of air sea rescue. I think deserves support. The army deal with floods and severe weather.

Or what about all the military personnel who are currently building clinics and treating Ebola victims? Do they not deserve support?

FluffyMcNuffy: "I find it hugely infuriating when peor say "I don't agree with war", well I'm sure you'd agree with it if the UK was about to be invaded and you were about to be taken off to a concentration camp a la Hitler."

First person to mention Hitler loses.

I find the way people compare every single bloody war to the second world both distasteful and ignorant.

I've also found that the most smug and sanctimonious comments on this thread have come from people defending the red poppy. I've never worn a white poppy before but reading some of the supercilious, self-congratulatory claptrap on here is enough to make me change my mind.

The first and second world wars were fought by conscripts who had little or no choice in the matter. The second world war was arguably a just war. The more recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were immoral and unjustifiable. At the end of 10 or more years, the result is thousands of dead civilians and a situation that is quite possibly worse than when we started. To even begin to compare those wars to the Second World War displays the most shocking ignorance and an inability to learn the lessons of history.

And yes, relatives of mine fought and died in World War II, so please don't insult me with your bigoted bullshit.

Conscientious Objectors used to get tarred and feathered and spat upon.
It's sad the same mentality exists today.

I put money in the RBL tins and usually wear a red poppy.
I honour the dead and injured from all wars.
I don't agree that the dead and injured in modern wars have actually died fighting to protect their country.
But I honour them the same.

When I was a teenager young people didn't join the army to fight for their country, they joined to see the world, meet interesting people and get away from the dole queue or the dead end factory job.

Or people like my son who diffuses bombs - if he got blown up diffusing a bomb in our local town centre would you not support him?