....to ask what you think of white poppies (Remembrance-related)?

[PlumpingUpPartridge]

I had been dimly aware of the existence of white poppies but hadn't really given them much thought until DH mentioned them this weekend. I checked out the website and saw this:

linky

I liked this quote:

"In 1933 the first white poppies appeared on Armistice Day (called Remembrance Day after World War Two). The white poppy was not intended as an insult to those who died in the First World War - a war in which many of the white poppy supporters lost husbands, brothers, sons and lovers - but a challenge to the continuing drive to war. The following year the newly founded Peace Pledge Union began widespread distribution of the poppies and their annual promotion."

I am very happy to express my admiration and respect for those who died in wars, but I don't particularly want to see any more wars. I don't know what the alternative is, but I'd like to see more effort go into finding it.

I've been sifting through the threads and noticed some anti-white poppy feeling (along the lines of 'it's disrespectful'). I didn't grow up here so don't have childhood experience to guide me on this. Please can you tell me what you think of it and, if you think it's disrespectful, why?

I'm not a journalist by the way, just curious and trying to be impartial

There's a reason for that...

Again you can believe what you want to believe, you chose not to, that's fine I'm not arguing that.

If I'm told something in person by a person whose judgment and honesty I trust then I can believe it if I want to.

"f I'm told something in person by a person whose judgment and honesty I trust then I can believe it if I want to."

Don't you even think for a second "why is there no evidence for this? Why does it appear nowhere else?"

Hak I'm told many things that don't appear anywhere else especially in the public press or have evidence on Google, I still believe it. it's my choice, the same way you have the choice not too believe.

Oh, for fuck's sake.

How would you feel if you were a white poppy wearer and somebody decided to spread a story like this about something important to you? And insist in sticking to it in the face of the lack of evidence?

Hak I'd have the basic understanding of someone's choice and leave it at that.

me you appear to have somewhat of an obsession with me. I find your posts aggressive and reactionary. I have no wish to engage with you. HTH.

I'd quite like to know your answers to those questions, Celtic They are valid questions
I have no obsession with you, and don't think I'm aggressive or reactionary.

Wearing a red poppy is symbolic of people's feelings. I had said earlier I would be also happy to wear a synchronised white poppy, alongside my proud red, because of the unnecessary lives lost to supposed cowardice and, at the time, misunderstood shell-shock. However, some posts on here by the white-poppy militia have made me rethink even that. I might just, in future years, stay at home for a month, wear nothing and let you all get on with your fury.

Why is it only ginger people are going on at for "making things up?" Rabbit has been asked countless times how she knows the people who "jostled her in to the road" and "hassled her outside a pub" were squaddies. She has refused to answer!

Maybe there's a reason for that ........

This is where you're wrongevans I'm not furious at all I'm quite happy for people to wear red poppies, it doesn't bother me in the slightest. I don't care if they donate all their life savings to the RBL if that's what they wish.

It's a free country still' but I and many others make different choices, will never wear a Red poppy or support modern conflicts, and I will happily get on with it, and wear my white poppy.
You must do as you see fit.

"However, some posts on here by the white-poppy militia have made me rethink even that"

Which posts are those?

I find it amusing fairy not once have I said they must believe me, or that it must be 100% true and tried to ram it down their throats over and over again, but yet I must be 100% wrong and don't have a personal choice and it's rammed down my throat.

Isn't it nice to live in a world with personal choice and the freedom to believe what you want to believe, wonder how that has come about and oppressive governments have been quashed. One does wonder....

I haven't refused to answer. I really don't want to engage with you directly because you are posting in such a ridiculous and aggressive (I think I see a theme developing actually) way but I will repeat - they didn't jostle me wordlessly, they also made comments. Which identified them not just as squaddies but also which base they were from (though that wouldn't have taken a genius to work out anyway). HTH

Rabbit if that is the case, you need to go speak to someone about it, the camp they are based at will have a guard room number ask to speak to someone who can deal with a complaint, and don't think it won't be dealt with, respecting the community is a big issue.

You are at liberty to wear a white poppy if you like but dont forget it's the sacrifice of the armed forces that got you that liberty whether you condone war or not.

You know, I've been on Mumsnet for some years now, under various names and the threads that always stick with me are the ones where my opinions (sometimes long held) have been challenged.

I may not have always admitted on the thread 'I've changed or modified my view' (so kudos to you, OP). But neither have I called another poster or their posts 'obsessed, aggressive and reactionary' (especially when they are no such thing) in order to evade a question that might mean I have to step outside my entrenched thinking for 5 minutes and admit it isn't as simple as I initially thought.

No need to 'engage' Celticlass2.

The point has been made.

So you don't know they were squaddies, because anyone could have said that really couldn't they? As you took it that they were soldiers, I take it you reported them to their CO?

Can you point out how I am being aggressive, and what theme you are noticing, please?

I agree with you Ginger

Their opinion mustn't be challenged and if you do you're labelled as aggressive! Strange that, as they are the ones banging on and on!

When I was at (a private and conservative) grammar school in the early nineties, a new teacher appeared one year who had the audacity to style herself 'Ms' and was rumoured to be a lesbian (considered quite a slur in that environment, despite the sapphic vibe of the hockey team!). She wore a white poppy; it caused quite a stir and she didn't last very long. She was a lovely, compassionate lady and I hope she found a much better job in a place that doesn't sap one's faith in humanity!

Diversions aside, it's a difficult issue, this one. I can sympathise with the sentiment of the white poppy, but I can also see how it can be taken as a kind of provocation by some. sits on fence

It was last year (I also stated I have avoided that area of town this year not entirely on purpose, but through lucky circumstance), and I didn't report it because I didn't want to get the lads into trouble, I doubt that they are terrible people really, and I wasn't entirely sure how any complaint would be received anyway. The attitude of service people and their wives and mothers towards white poppy wearers isn't great, is it?

I mentioned this incident because another poster speculated on what it would be like to wear a white poppy somewhere with a strong military presence, and others poo poohed the idea that it would be uncomfortable. Well - it can be. But as someone else pointed out it's more the nonservice people who make comments. As you yourself pointed out most service people probably have more to worry about.

I'm assuming that the phrase "white poppy militia" was chosen deliberately for maximum insult.

And while I do choose to wear a red poppy and fully support others who do the same, I'm not comfortable with the linking of the British armed forces with the concept of freedom of belief when non violent civilian family members and family friends have been shot at, arrested and in some cases tortured by the British army in Northern Ireland. Things are very different there now, in large part to the work of peace activists from all communities who are able to listen rather than react.

So please, do be specific about the problems you have with my views and beliefs, and I will listen and answer as best I can.

I can't explain my objections to red poppies, because I wear one myself.

I do object to the portrayal of military action in a purely positive light, because I have a strongly held belief against violence, and am not prepared to advocate it.

I do object to people making unfounded assumptions about the attitude of people who wear white poppies. I am happy to explain my reasons, and to take into account any that you find offensive.

Most of the people I know who wear white poppies are white-haired Quaker old ladies who are far more likely help out at food banks and homeless shelters than go round insulting soldiers. Actually, given the shocking proportion of ex-servicemen in the homeless population, their ratio of help to hindrance is probably pretty high up on the "help" side.

I don't have an issue with white poppy wearers, Rabbit, other than I think it should be done at another time of the year. Would you care to copy and paste my posts where it shows that I have?

Again, just another example of the white poppy wearers making things up!

I have this minute come back from viewing the poppies at the Tower, and if anyone thinks that viewing symbols of all those lives lost can be ANYTHING other than in the interests of encouraging us to strive for peace they need their heads testing.

In that context I find white poppies distractionary and irritatingly prissy.

I view those who were shot at dawn etc as victims of war as well (how powerfully The Village covered that), and remember all lives.

But I can see why the families of such people have a particular feeling to express if red poppies are about 'honouring the fallen'.

I don't see it like that, and I hope that in the church services this Sunday the message will be about ongoing peace.

Fairy please stop addressing posts to me. I have told you I don't want to engage with you, I find your hounding of me aggressive and stalkery. You have made it clear you wish to close down debate and to prevent white poppy wearers from having the basic freedom to wear the white poppy if they want. You seek to dictate when and where they wear it. You have also tried to use your husband and son's jobs to shit down debate which is really a bit shoddy. You have accused white poppy wearers of making things up with no evidence and continued to levy those accusations when it has been pointed out they are falsehoods. I don't want to engage with you any more and I will not engage with you any more.

Rabbit I am not hounding or stalking you! You are the one who keeps mentioning me, you are the one who "and their wives and mothers" in bold to refer to me!

You are the one who is trying to close down the debate. You are the one who called me "silly" and told ginger her opinion was irrelevant. I have not continue to levy any accusations, at all.

You are making things up to suit your own agenda.