To be a bit dismayed if 4 million women visit this site,why are there so few posts on the feminism threads?

[Scarletohello]

Ok so I know there are lots of lurkers but if there are really millions of women who go on MN, why are so many threads on the feminism section consisting of so few women? It doesn't make sense to me as so many issues that
women post about on many different topics are actually feminist issues when it comes down to it...

I never start discussions, I just join ones from active conversations that interest me.
I would like to discuss being the parent of boys and raising emotionally healthy ones. Also double standards and being a man in modern society.

But it's not a tiny minority. FWR is fairly active, threads regularly go into active convos and run into hundreds, and there are enough 'regulars' I don't think I could name them all. More than some sections; fewer than others.

Repeating that you think only a handful of people post doesn't make it true. It just makes it look as if you think other people are too dim to notice you're making things up.

Mehitabel, there was a thread about bringing up boys a while ago I think!
Is being a man really a feminist issue though...?

Then why is the thread still going, Jeanne? Why didn't everyone say 'rubbish- over 2 million women regularly post'. Why are lots of us saying we have a problem with it and won't post?
OK - on the subjects - what do women expect in a man in modern society?

"I would like to discuss being the parent of boys and raising emotionally healthy ones. Also double standards and being a man in modern society."

Me too! Particularly the parenting of boys one- I've been on several interesting threads about that. Interested in the being a man topic too- although they often seem to be targeted by "tourists" from other forums.
Double standards?

It isn't the 'enough regulars' which is the issue, I'm sure the regulars like it that way. The issue is why do so many women avoid it?

Maybe because there's a big gap between 'a handful' and 'over 2 million'.

Which, honestly, I suspect you knew.

I don't think 'women' can be generalized about, either. But am interested in expectations of men. I often wonder about the gap between what women actually expect, and what we're told we expect.

I'm a moderate feminist...

I would like to discuss some of the issues around women being able to choose to take on "traditional" feminine roles if that suits them personally.

Why the government approach to getting all women back into work after childbirth has led to poorer wages for all and over-reliance on a benefits/tax credits culture? Is there a better way?

Is cultural relativism a valid excuse for our government continuing to send aid to countries where FGM is practised?

I'll discuss them in chat because everybody wades in with opinions and lots of different people have lots of differing opinions. On the feminist boards I will not get past post 3 without being told repeatedly about the patriarchal societal norms. The view HAS become too narrow, it limits the debate, and makes people look elsewhere.

Not sure what you mean by what I expect from a man- do you mean in my personal life as a feminist, or in society generally?

Double standards
Difficult wife - be more understanding
Difficult husband - LTB

Girls- don't want them wearing pink frilly dresses at every opportunity.
Boys- of course they must be free to wear pink frilly dresses whenever they choose.

Both.

'Mehitabel, there was a thread about bringing up boys a while ago I think!
Is being a man really a feminist issue though...?'

Raising a boy into a man is a feminist issue for me. If many of the problems that women face are because of the imbalance of power and entrenched attitudes, I think an effective tool for change is to raise men who see the injustices and ask questions about that, and who challenge their peers on their attitudes.
DS often has a feminist slant on some topics; partly because of the women he lives with and who are part of his extended family, partly because his female friends have strong opinions and partly because of his Asperger's. Most anti-feminist stances are illogical to him.

Lots of people disagreeing with you isn't being "screamed into submission" - it's lots of people disagreeing with you and YOU CHOOSING to interpret that as "screaming" and requiring "submission". Screaming is a pretty loaded and emotional word but let's be clear that it is the interpretation of the describer and not actually possible in the context of an internet discussion. And yes, some poster have made similar judgements about the tone of FWR but plenty of people have said that's NOT their experience, too. It's really unreasonable to say I have to accept your lived experience of this when you absolutely refuse the lived experience of those who say that's not how it is. That's not a denial of your feelings, that's disagreeing with your analysis. Look on the first page of threads on FWR, they are what I cite as my evidence that this interpretation you offer isn't fair. I would love to have an example of a " screaming " thread so I can see where we are in such disagreement about all of this.

Repeating that you think only a handful of people post doesn't make it true. It just makes it look as if you think other people are too dim to notice you're making things up

Nearly 1000 posts about why people don't post - and that's your response?

Many people have said they hide FWR. As a feminist, don't you think that's a problem when many women on one of the world's most popular forums for women don't want to discuss feminism or don't feel comfortable discussing feminist issues on the feminist section?

Wow when I resurrected this thread (from November last year) at 9am yesterday I didn't expect near 500 posts in 24 hours!

I haven't had a chance to read everything but there are obviously a lot of issues regarding the fwr board that a lot of mners have passionate views about.

Since this thread is nearly full there are maybe some points that could be addressed on their own thread? (Maybe not actually on the fwr board though!)

Good discussion topics SonewherIBelong.
Raising a boy and him becoming a man are very feminist issues to me.
What do you want personally in a man and what does society want ,now that the traditional role has gone?

'Girls- don't want them wearing pink frilly dresses at every opportunity.
Boys- of course they must be free to wear pink frilly dresses whenever they choose.'

Those two don't make sense to me.
Girl=pink frillies=living the stereotype
boy=pink frillies =challenging the stereotype.

In the 70s, I had to fight for the right to wear jeans as my family disapproved of girls in trousers with a front zip as it was manly. Likewise dungerees on a child over 12. Both of which arguments I won.
My brother never got the opportunity to wear anything potentially feminine, even a pink shirt.

I thread asks why women don't post. It gets answers and the answers are denied. Thereby lies the problem.

"Double standards
Difficult wife - be more understanding
Difficult husband - LTB

Girls- don't want them wearing pink frilly dresses at every opportunity.
Boys- of course they must be free to wear pink frilly dresses whenever they choose."

Oh, OK. Well, the first one- doesn't that have to be on a case by case basis?

The second- well, one is buying into a stereotype, the other is trying to step away from a stereotype. Girls aren't born with a pink frilly gene- our society has imposed it on them. And told boys that anything "girly" is to be avoided like the plague. Good to stand up to artificially imposed norms sometimes.

Exactly Hag, double standards- it is allowed if it challenges a stereotype.

Your list, Mehiyabel6, is that what you want discussed on the FWR or is it what you thing is wrong with femimit perspectives generally? Cos the LTB stuff sounds a bit like a beef people have with relationships, and I want to be clear what you think k the FWR should be doing in relation to these issues. Genuine question, - I want to discuss further but just want to be clear how we're framing those issues.

I have a little boy, I agree, raising him is a feminist issue. Patriarchy has quite brutal expectations of him. Both of my children wear pink - I think that is because I want them not to feel obliged or disbarred from any choice based on their sex.

'Lots of people disagreeing with you isn't being "screamed into submission" - it's lots of people disagreeing with you and YOU CHOOSING to interpret that as "screaming" and requiring "submission". Screaming is a pretty loaded and emotional word but let's be clear that it is the interpretation of the describer and not actually possible in the context of an internet discussion.'

Going off at a tangent here, but the pervception of what's happening is important. In racist and bullying incidents, how the interaction/attack is perceived by the recipient is seen as a key factor, even if the other person involved didn't intend to be intimidating or racist.
I've never felt bullied on the FWR boards. I have felt dismissed and patronised, but that's how debates go sometimes. The odds are sometimes not in your favour. But I'm old, and failrly robust and I've survived teenagers, and being the parent of children with additional needs so I may be less sensitive than others. Doesn't invalidate others saying they are feeling battered and distressed by the same encounters.

True, orlando, the 1000 posts does rather prove my point.

Many people have said they hide FWR. As a feminist, don't you think that's a problem when many women on one of the world's most popular forums for women don't want to discuss feminism or don't feel comfortable discussing feminist issues on the feminist section?

Frankly, no. Why should it be a problem?

I have often noticed that there are many posters who claim they avoid FWR. Yet they seem mysteriously familiar with it, almost as if they're not being entirely honest about the avoiding ....

I think if they feel more comfortable listening and denying it, well, ok then. It's a bit peculiar but it must work for them.

Wasn't there at head on feminism a while back where quite a few regulars wanted a closed board or such and only posters with a certain knowledge of feminist theory and understanding should be posting.

I have seen posters "screamed down" by regular feminist posters but I don't visit the board really now. They have a way of just relentlessly beating a poster down so that in the end anyone with a different view left the thread to the feminists all congratulating themselves. This was often off the feminist board, so obviously a call to arms had gone out as the usual suspects would suddenly appear en masse. This was more back in the days of the dittany reign. Don't know if she's still around or what the board is like now.