To be a bit dismayed if 4 million women visit this site,why are there so few posts on the feminism threads?

[Scarletohello]

Ok so I know there are lots of lurkers but if there are really millions of women who go on MN, why are so many threads on the feminism section consisting of so few women? It doesn't make sense to me as so many issues that
women post about on many different topics are actually feminist issues when it comes down to it...

Which way around, Orlando? I think the idea that one can change sex without any examination of context and effect is pretty extreme. Who gets to decide whether it is or not? Same with choice. And the anti - fwr comments. They are pretty extreme when it may be you who is being referenced.

It's all perception, innit?

I wish I could have born a child. But my body can't. Being able to carry and give birth must be wonderful.

Me too, Orlando. I was born a woman and can't have children.

If it would help to post your own thread about how things are going I'll be there to support you Romey

I think FWR is anti trans compared to the rest of MN. The rest of MN in general seems more friendly towards the trans community. There is a lot of hostility to trans people on FWR.

I have no problem with people who want to cross genders but I have serious problems with some male-to-female transgender people who aggressively insist on denying the experiences of born females.

In that case I will get aggressive back.

I have been called a TERF.

I've learned to embrace that term. It is essentially what I believe and don't feel is an insult.

It's strange because I'd never have labelled myself a TERF or a RadFem - both of which I've been called.

But I'm comfortable with the descriptions.

PS: I think the RadFems might kick me out of bed.

That's if I wanted to be there.

limitedperiodonly - Why would the RadFems kick you out of bed?

Because rad fems don't think that transpeople have real issues and that they are making it all up.

I don't think that is the case Orlando

Ask Sheila Jeffries what she thinks. Or Julie Bindel. Quite prominent rad feminists.

Personally I feel that to put a time or circumstance limit on when a woman gets autonomy over her own body is almost as bad as stripping her of any autonomy at all when she becomes pregnant

wow.. never heard of anyone saying it should be allowed what a horrific thought cuddles squish!

Orlando, I know Julie Bindel thinks that Trans people have real issues and are not making it up. She just doesn't think you can change sex.

Personally I think a lot of FWR posters have no sympathy for trans people and many still think of them as men dressing up.

Just my opinion though. And that's why I avoid FWR.

I don't think Jeffries thinks that. I don't know about Bindel.

I also think, TBH, that is is actually ok to say you disagree with some radical feminists on some issues, and are still a radfem.

I've heard Jeffries talk about lesbianism as a choice. Some radfems would disagree very strongly with that - and would feel personally disturbed by the idea of sexuality not being innate. It is deeply politically controversial after all.

But that doesn't mean all radfems must agree with her. You take what someone says and see if you can agree. If you can't, and you find it offensive, you say so and you discount it.

I actually think FWR is pretty good at that.

Cross post.

orlando, I think accusing FWR posters of thinking about trans people as 'men dressing up' (and ignoring an entire gender) may be the root of the problem here.

I know what I think FWR posters generally think about trans people. You may see it differently.

Yes, I certainly do see it differently.

I hate to break it to you, but transmen do exist in the real world, you know. It is incredibly rude to act as if you can just ignore them. If this is representative of your attitude towards gender, I'm not very surprised you don't like posting in FWR.

Jeffries is a political lesbian. Some radical feminists agree with that, some don't.
Radical feminists generally do care about "trans men". That is because they see them as women.
Most radical feminists acknowledge "trans women" have issues in their life, but their focus is women, not men.

I mean .. 'I think a lot of FWR posters have no sympathy for trans people and many still think of them as men dressing up.'

Can you take a minute to imagine how your post must make transmen feel? Utterly erased. You don't even seem to consider them as people.

Isn't there a difference from critically engaging with the wider issues of trans-activism, with the politics and the way that trans demands effect the way in which the "concept woman" is being redefined, in the social conditioning that leads to an increase in trans identified people, or the reported scientific research and being trans-phobic or anti trans people?

lucy - well, I'm a radfem. Transmen are transmen.

Transmen have lived experience of misogyny directed at them. Anyone who's any kind of feminist ought to care about that.

You don't even seem to consider them as people

And that is exactly the kind of comment that stops many people posting on FWR.

Because many posters on FWR never discuss transmen and only see trans to do with MTF. I don't think I've ever seen transmen discussed on FWR and all the discussion has been to assume it's MTF.

I've never seen you discuss transmen. You have always discussed trans issues as to do with transwomen.

I've never seen you say "how do men feel about being erased by transmen"

So don't come over all sanctimonious and pious now. Your posts have always been about transwomen.

Hang on Orlando, it was YOUR post that described trans issues purely as MTF?