To be a bit dismayed if 4 million women visit this site,why are there so few posts on the feminism threads?

[Scarletohello]

Ok so I know there are lots of lurkers but if there are really millions of women who go on MN, why are so many threads on the feminism section consisting of so few women? It doesn't make sense to me as so many issues that
women post about on many different topics are actually feminist issues when it comes down to it...

No Sir, because they are free to post on the feminism topic as much as they want. Why not start a thread for those people? I am a very regular poster on the feminism thread but I don't control it. Anyone can join in and start any thread they want about any topic. If someone wants to tackle something they see as an accepted viewpoint on the feminism board, they can go ahead and regulars will likely join in and explain their viewpoint on it. I just don't really see the point in going AIBU and complaining about the topic - what can that achieve?

I have personally started threads in the past specifically for people who find the feminism board intimidating and with the express purpose of engaging with people on topics they are unsure about or don't feel confident posting about. And I was called patronising by plenty of people then too. So, what's the solution?

The pubic hair thing is interesting. I certainly think that the rise of the porn/glamour industry had an impact on how women (and men) viewed pubic hair and put pressure on women and girls to look a particular way. However, I think that the 'grooming' industry has taken over from that and run with it - when I was a teenager in the 80s, for example, no-one went to the beauty salon (or very few women did). Now, of course, there's one on every street corner - being groomed to within an inch of their lives is the norm for many women, and that includes being waxed because it's 'cleaner' (as it's promoted in so many magazines and so on) and smoother.

Personally I think it looks weirdly pre-pubescent, but it's very much a personal choice - and certainly isn't a new thing. Other cultures have been removing body hair for far longer than we have.

Feminism has many different groups and ideologies. I think that radical feminism is dominant on FWR and that can put some people off posting who may disagree with that.

I agree Sir, and on the scale of things removing hair isn't a massive feminist problem. But it is part of the problem. It is part of the expectation that women will modify their bodies, with makeup, by waxing, with breast implants, with botox, etc in order to stay beautiful as that is what is expected of them. The same pressure isn't on men. That's the issue feminists have with it.

That's a fair point Orlando, although I think if someone posted and said "I am not a radical feminist, I believe this..." and opened the debate on something plenty of people will engage. I think where it can get shirty is when posters come on and rubbish feminism entirely - it just comes across as a pointless attack.

Cailindana- to me an anti feminist choice is one which actively sets back the cause of women's rights and freedoms. Which actively buys into an anti woman, patriarchal sensibility.

And equally sir, with shaving, the shame element is the major part of the problem. Like I said, it is very very rare to see a hairy woman. It is an expectation that as a woman you will be smoothly shaven. I for one avoid going swimming because my skin reacts badly to shaving but I can't face going hairy. So I miss out on exercise because of a stupid expectation and my fear of being judged. I envy my DH who can just throw on a pair of trunks and go.

There solution as I see it is this - recognise that it's not a competition, no-one wins the 'Best Feminist on Mumsnet' medal, that feminist views come in varying degrees, and that people are entitled to put their views across without being shouted down and told that they are not enough of a feminist to be on there.

I have very rarely seen radical feminist views on Mumsnet. There were a couple of radical feminists who posted once a long time ago - but I don't think there are any at the moment. Generally speaking it's pretty vanilla on here!

How did you remove your hair Need? How did you know how to do it?

And I was called patronising by plenty of people then too. So, what's the solution?

This is the solution. Plenty of of people seem to have perfectly reasonable objections to the mn feminism boards, and do not necessarily have any objection to feminism itself. So, let them not post there. That's a perfectly sensible approach.

I have very rarely seen radical feminist views on Mumsnet

You are talking about FWR?

I can post on there and guarantee a 1000 post thread with mainly radical feminists.

"Cailindana- to me an anti feminist choice is one which actively sets back the cause of women's rights and freedoms. Which actively buys into an anti woman, patriarchal sensibility."

Ok, but I don't see what you're trying to achieve by pointing at women who are pushed into these choices by that patriarchal sensibility and judging them for it? As in, how is it helpful to recognise the societal forces that mean women shave while at the same time criticising women for (understandably) giving into those forces?

an anti feminist choice is one which actively sets back the cause of women's rights and freedoms

And so if that choice means that women have the right and freedom to choose to remove their pubic hair - how can that be anti-feminist? Or is it because the feminist ideology has dictated that this particular 'thing' is anti feminist, therefore it is?

Hakluyt I can never work out whether you're being disingenuous when you say things like "I genuinely don't know what upsets people so much", and when you keep asking for people to link to threads (bad form anyway) or to name certain posters (also bad form).

This is not the only thread where I've seen you apparently looking 'baffled' when people criticise the FWR topic.

I've just re-read the OP's TAAT that go so many people riled up and there you are again, asking for 'proof' from everyone and looking baffled.

I can't make up my mind whether you just refuse to believe a word of what people are saying...suggesting they're all wrong or lying, or if you just seem to have your head firmly in the sand.

This is the solution. Plenty of of people seem to have perfectly reasonable objections to the mn feminism boards, and do not necessarily have any objection to feminism itself. So, let them not post there. That's a perfectly sensible approach.

Yes this ^^

Just leave people alone. Let them ask questions when and where they want to, instead of wishing to 'educate' other women, which is what the OP said she wanted to do.

It depends why you come on to MN as well. Plenty come on for advice on a specific issue, some because they are bored, and lots of other reasons. Only some of those reasons will mean they want to discuss feminism.

Do you get why I believe shaving is a feminist issue Need? As in, you had that personal experience of removing your hair but it is absolutely no coincidence that practically every other woman in the UK does exactly the same thing.

"Just leave people alone. Let them ask questions when and where they want to, instead of wishing to 'educate' other women, which is what the OP said she wanted to do."

Who isn't leaving people alone Worra? The OP was surprised at how little interest there was in the feminism board and people discussed it. No one is stopping anyone from asking questions where they want to.