To be a bit dismayed if 4 million women visit this site,why are there so few posts on the feminism threads?

[Scarletohello]

Ok so I know there are lots of lurkers but if there are really millions of women who go on MN, why are so many threads on the feminism section consisting of so few women? It doesn't make sense to me as so many issues that
women post about on many different topics are actually feminist issues when it comes down to it...

cailindana - because it opens the debate, surely? I didn't/don't agree with Scottish independence, for example. On the run up to the referendum, I joined many pro-indy threads to make my views heard in the debate (and vice versa). How dull it would be if threads only existed for like minded people to nod and agree with each other.

No, I get what you're saying and I think we keep X-posting which is making it more confusing.

I'm an occasional lurker, I am interested in feminism and have read some really thought provoking things on there but I rarely post because I feel I would more than likely piss people off with my 'light' views.
There are some very strong minded posters on there and I'm a wimp.

I might rethink though.

I see feminism in lots of other boards. In particular relationships, but also AIBU and chat. I think it is important that women know they shouldn't put up with being treated badly and they do deserve much better. And that doesn't need to happen in the feminist section.

I've never encountered anyone saying shaving is anti feminist. The pressure piled on women to shave is anti feminist.

I shave as much as I can for comfort and hygeine reasons personally. I feel cleaner and more comfy when I'm shaved. That's not anti feminist, its me making a choice that works for me.

There is a tendency though Sir, for posters to come on and want the very existence of feminism to be justified to them over and over again. So if you state "male violence is a huge problem" when discussing the judiciary for example, you will have a poster say "but not all men are violent!" and it is expected that the debate will now turn, for the millionth time, to why not all men are violent but that doesn't mean male violence isn't a problem. A lot of the discussions are quite theoretical and it can be difficult to fill in all the detail all the time.

Oh, God. Pubic hair!

Yes, I do think women removing their public hair is an anti feminist choice. That is not saying people shouldn't do it. But they should do it aware. Women removing their pubic hair was not a "thing" until porn started to become mainstream. And women in porn movies remove their pubic hair so that the viewer can see the action more clearly. Anything which adds to the objectification of women and which narrows the gap between sex and porn has to be anti feminist. Boys are now increasingly expecting girls to look and behave like women in porn. Which has to be a bad thing.

"I see feminism in lots of other boards. In particular relationships, but also AIBU and chat. I think it is important that women know they shouldn't put up with being treated badly and they do deserve much better. And that doesn't need to happen in the feminist section."

I agree entirely lucy. More theoretical or political topics tend to be discussed on the feminism board, but MN is a thoroughly feminist site - feminist views are absolutely everywhere.

Because i haven't done a degree in women's studies, haven't read any of the books, don't use the correct terms so get belittled.

"Too many man haters"

WHERE?????????

See, I don't agree with you there Hakluyt. I think the term "anti-feminist choice" is entirely meaningless and only serves to make women feel bad and alienate them from feminism.

A degree in women's studies? I know lots of feminists, few have done degrees of any kind. Most women become feminists by talking to other feminists. Not by studying.

I realise it must be frustrating cailindana - but unfortunately (fortunately?!) MN is an open forum, and you will get posters with a variety of views on there. You can't stop that - and there are similar things happening on other threads too (e.g. on Style and Beauty - 'how can you justify spending £200 on a handbag when there are children starving in Africa')

And yet time and again, many women have stated on MN that they remove their pubic hair, because it makes oral sex (for example) more sensitive and pleasurable Hakluyt.

So whilst you have a point about the porn industry, pubic hair removal is not necessarily an anti feminist choice. Not for that individual person anyway.

Hence quite a few people being fed up at being told they're making an anti feminist choice, just because of what the porn industry is/isn't doing these days.

I'm not saying I want to stop people having different views Sir, I'm saying that a thread is started on a particular topic and if someone comes along and starts talking about something related but not part of the topic then they may get ignored or told to read up on it or something because there is a desire to get on with talking about the topic rather than to explain the same things over and over again.

Mmm interesting and controversial thread!

Yes, I do think women removing their public hair is an anti feminist choice

I could disagree more. I shave my pubic hair, because I spend a lot of time at the gym. Lifting weights, flipping tyres, beating tyres with a sledge hammer. In summer a sweaty crotch is uncomfortable. Without the hair its less sweaty. End of. Feminism doesn't come it to it. Its down to personal choice. As a person, not as a woman. Its my pubic hair, I don't feel I need to do anything with it. I choose to.

I am also quite sure the ancient Egyptians shaved their entire bodies and removed all body hair. It didn't turn up with the invention of porn.

Does the fact that my dad, when he had a manual job, shaved his pits in summer become a gender issue?

I agree with cali anti feminist choice is phrase that alienates women and stops them making choices for themselves.

For example, Sir, if someone posts saying there is a problem with the attitudes of courts toward victim of sexual assaults and says that "there is a lack of recognition of the fact that the victims of sexual violence are mostly female," and someone comes on saying "but men get assaulted too!" it's very hard to engage with that point because it is true, yes, but tangential to what is being discussed. If posters engage with that it entirely derails the thread. Plus it is frustrating not to be able to discuss anything to do with women without having to constantly acknowledge that men suffer too.

I've done the same debate on there loads of times and it gets boring, annoying,upsetting etc to discuss the same issue with the same people who mostly seem to have the same radical feminist viewpoint.

And that's fine - but there aren't many posters on here who are reporting that they aren't feminists or that they've posted that they don't believe in sexism. The majority of us on here consider ourselves to be feminists but feel that the Feminism thread is not for us - and giving similar reasons, over and over again. Does that not cause you concern?

But very few women do seem to say it's because it makes oral sex better. Certainly the women who post about being worried what the midwife will think of them, or who wonder whether they should apologize to the person doing their smear tests because their public hair has grown aren't presumably thinking about oral sex.......

There are a lot of feminists who are very passionate and I feel get quite frustrated when someone a bit less engaged/knowledgeable involves themselves in a discussion.
This is why I read but don't post. I can't contribute on the same level.
I don't agree with the 'man haters' label. I've not seen that.

Where feminism comes into that whole issue shewept, is that women are expected to shave. So if there were similar numbers of women walking down the street with hairy and smooth legs you would say yes, shaving is a choice women make for themselves. But the fact that it is very very rare to see a woman with hairy legs, and the fact that you would never see a model with hairy legs means that actually it's not a choice, it's something imposed on women as an expectation. That is the issue feminism has with it. Whether an individual woman shaves or not is not anyone's business except that woman's.

". Does that not cause you concern?"

Yes, it does. Huge concern. But I genuinely don't know what's being said thwt upsets people so much- and nobody seems to want to tell me.