To be a bit dismayed if 4 million women visit this site,why are there so few posts on the feminism threads?

[Scarletohello]

Ok so I know there are lots of lurkers but if there are really millions of women who go on MN, why are so many threads on the feminism section consisting of so few women? It doesn't make sense to me as so many issues that
women post about on many different topics are actually feminist issues when it comes down to it...

Recognising that men as a group are responsible for certain things... isn't man hating, I don't think.

Men are not collectively responsible for anything. Neither are blacks, Jews, Muslims or immigrants.

stupidhead not only would I not hate you, I'd want to go have a beer with you

Personally I don't ever look at individuals as 'letting down the side', I reserve my anger for politicians and corporations and those powerful people who keep things from changing for the better

I am not a 'stereotypical' feminist in many ways and in fact I disagree with lots of stuff in FWR. But overall I feel very strongly about the massive amount of suffering and injustice that women in the world have to put up with, and so I read and post there.

Sometimes there are threads I find offputting or disagree with but I don't think that means the entire board is wrong.

Buffy you have a good name
I have always found your posts to be reasonable

WhatWould actually a sticky at the top of FWR threads would be a good idea if only to remind everyone that there are different schools of feminist thought and to provide definitions for the acronyms (and their connotations).

I find the FWR threads tend to stifle rather than encourage debate and actually there are few other threads which are dominated by one specific agenda in the same way. It's rare for AIBU to have a consensus of opinion. It does happen but usually all shades of opinions are reflected in the replies. I don't see that on the FWR boards. I don't see conflicting feminist opinions being respected as equal.

FWR doesn't have a monopoly on feminist thought so it's a bit disingenuous to imply criticisms of the FWR board are anti-feminist. It's also worth remembering that no-one from outwith FWR set out to troll the FWR boards or to launch this discussion. It was a poster identifying as an FWR poster who started this thread and then started a TAAT in FWR where the responses on this thread were misrepresented.

Stupidhead, so I would read that as your male household having been culturally conditioned from birth to see pink as 'girly', 'pretty', 'feminine', ie definitely not for a Man (and therefore a boy).

And you have (very sensibly) used that cultural norm to protect your stuff.

And yet a hundred and fifty years ago, I think male babies in this country (well, wealthy ones anyhoo) were dressed traditionally in pink, girls in blue.

So it's very clearly a cultural change that has happened, nothing to do with how boys' or men's brains naturally reject pink.

Plus, I don't live a very 'feminist' life. I stay at home with the child and do all the housework. DP does the DIY.

Why isn't that a feminist life style?

Unless you don't want to be a SAHP, or your dh treats you as a slave or you think your son is more intelligent than you because he has a penis.

I agree. Male violence affects both sexes and if you work in a casualty department you see many more young men on a Friday and Saturday night who have been assaulted by men often without provocation than women.
(Some) men are violent to people. The gender of the victim is less relevant than many like to think.
My teenage son is more likely to be assaulted than my teenage daughter.

Muddy I think a lot depends on how you mention it or bring it up. For example, I'm not sure a lot of people would agree that it actually is a 'shared experience' -- men and women may both experience violence from men, but this tends to happen in very different ways. Women are more likely to be hurt by men inside their own homes, and to experience sexual violence. The physical violence they experience is compounded by other disadvantages they face thanks to social inequalities.

So while I agree that men and women should be allies against violence, I think people may be put off if you imply that men are victimised in the same way, because there are important differences. It's not about dismissing male experience, just trying to keep the differences in focus, because they do matter.

"My teenage son is more likely to be assaulted than my teenage daughter."

and both are more likely to be assaulted by a man.

Stupidhead - i'm a card carrying feminist and I quite like the rather OTT academic/theoretical discussion. But I also cook every night, really enjoy baking, shopping, the colour pink (well, fuschia ), love my husband and care about the way I look. I wish I could plaster, build and render (hell, i'd settle for basic DIY skills) but I never have and my DH needs keeping busy....

I dunno what point i'm trying to make. Maybe that being critical of sexism doesn't mean you're a man hating, body hair growing, paragon of feminist virtue.

Muddy, you need to get one of these. Saves all the typing every time

I get the point about violence, and men suffering it too. But really, Feminism is for women, about women, by women. I think that Feminists think that they have enough on their plate, without having to discuss men's issues too. It isn't really what they are all about.

I have avoided your boards completely as I grew up in a feminist house hold, and do greatly appreciate what years and years ago feminist have done for woman in this country. But there comes a point when working under the feminist banner is like Flogging a dead horse. The problems that really need changing are cultural and political. These issues really get my goat but they are not exclusivly feminist. Yes they effect woman but you have to start taking these on from a different angle. By pigeon holing your self a feminist you instantly loose more then half of public /politicians interest and these are the people who need to be reached. Preaching and Brain washing turns off the public. Bring your debates out into the normal threads without the slant of feminism and pushing your point constantly. Let people see and think for themselves. Sow the seed of doubt. Cultures take generations to change.

As for the hardcore feminists with the issues of Mrs ms miss, shaving/waxing mostly hating men for there oppression
(I have meet a few in rl) they just remind me of Rick from the young ones.
(unfortunately some of your thread titles have been about these things hence the fact I have never bother to look any further at your forum)

I confess I have not read this thread but did read the other before it was deleted which prompted me to post.

'But really, Feminism is for women, about women, by women. I think that Feminists think that they have enough on their plate, without having to discuss men's issues too.'

Whereas I see men's issues having a huge impact on women's issues, and think that in a number of cases, solving one resolves the other. Treating the root cause rather than dealing with symptoms and consequences.

But I'm very happy to have those discussions and campaigns far away from any feminist boards, to avoid unnecessary kerfuffle and explanations and petty disagreements that waste time and energy.

Muddy, the gif was in jest, sort of. For clarity's sake, I am a man. I've had the 'Behold...' thing flung at me on FWR, when I wasn't trolling and thought I was making reasonable points. But then I guess that is just my perception, and others didn't feel that way.

So I like to read FWR. As a dad of a teenager daughter, it has given me plenty of food for thought. I join in occasionally, but I try to limit myself to questions and requests for clarification of something I don't understand, rather than offering any perspective. It isn't really welcome. There are other places I can go if I want to sound off about something.

Going back to the OP - I don't post there much, but do lurk a lot. I have identified myself as a feminist since the age of about 10.

I don't post there much mostly because I miss Dittany and hate how she was driven off the boards.

I also find some discussions quite hard to stomach. A particular one in chat a while back comes to mind - it started off as a thread about cancer (which I have had) and ended up a discussion with several FWR regulars with some views I found quite upsetting. That put me off the FWR section for ages.

I am also a SAHM/housewife which doesn't sit well with some on the boards so I just stay away from some discussions because of this.

And the goady fuckers, trolls, and activists that are allowed to stay and haunt the boards and derail threads piss me off, and I am too old and tired to read on, let alone post on those threads as well.

I have posted on FWR on and off for years. There can be some good discussions on there, but it does tend to be about a narrow range of subjects.

Unfortunately, one of those narrow range of subjects Fwr is fixated with is trans people, so they have endless threads complaining about trans people taking over feminism, which get more posts then anything else on the board. Which is rather ironic. I found the hatefulness towards a section of society, dressed up as "important feminist discourse" in those discussions too much, so I don't go there anymore.