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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

to be completely confused - pro/anti choice

345 replies

ScarletFever · 28/10/2014 12:49

I have ALWAYS considered myself pro-choice

and then this - remember that person Josie who is on the daily mail a lot, with her nhs boob job etc who has made a career of annoying people... who said

"i would have aborted my baby if it meant i could go on Big Brother"

Right - so I was like "oh you evil cow" etc......, but then it was pointed out somewhere, if you are pro-choice, then what difference does it mean if her reason is crap?

So, how do i get my head around it being 'ok to abort a disabled child, or if you are not ready for children, or even it is the wrong time (re career) to have a child' but not ok to abort a child for a 'celebrity' reason??

OP posts:

DiaDuit · 28/10/2014 14:35

I think abortions should be banned in all but a very few circumstances.

So you'll be funding all the birth to 18 care of the children born as a result of unwanted pregnancies then? Do the mothers just drop them off at yours post birth or do you go round the hospitals with a big basket?

CatKisser · 28/10/2014 14:35

Why should repeated abortions be any different from others?
Some of us don't EVER want to be parents. We will obviously take all possible contraceptive measures. But contraception fails! I have had a termination in this situation and, sorry for sounding crass, I would do so again. And again.

Obviously a horrible thought, but when your doctor point blank refuses to sterilise you because you're under 30, it's a genuine possibility.

And I just don't believe that there are women who would view repeated abortions as more convenient than getting an injection every 3 months or popping a pill every morning.

Mammanat222 · 28/10/2014 14:36

I completely disagree and think it's perfectly reasonable to be pro-choice but have your own grey areas?

For example I cannot see myself having 5 abortions in my lifetime, this doesn't mean I would expect a woman who has had 5 abortions to endure an unwanted pregnancy or want abortion outlawed to prevent this?

I have been through the whole spectrum of abortion / recurrent miscarriage / successful pregnancy and I have my own personal opinions on what is right "for me" whilst fully understanding that all women are not the same as I am.

Is that not fair enough?

See this is where I get pissed off with pro-choice, and find some people as ignorant as those who are unflinchingly pro-life...

I am pro-choice. All women should have the right to choice when it comes to pregnancy, but because I dare voice that maybe having 3,4,5 abortions isn't ideal I am suddenly not pro-choice?

It really isn't as simple as that is it? I can't help having my own personal take on something of this nature?

What I would like to see is that women who have multiple abortions being offered support to try and avoid perpetuating the cycle, but never once have I said they should be refused the choice for to have further terminations if need be.

Cotherstone · 28/10/2014 14:39

It's ok to have issues in your head. It's not nice, but everyone judges. So real life is someone sitting there and thinking, well, that's not exactly a decent reason to have an abortion, is it. It's sad - as someone who has had an abortion for reasons lots of other people will see as 'not good enough' - but it's real life.

But they have to stay in your head.

You are either pro-choice, or anti-choice, regardless of the reasons why.

And as for judging people who have had repeated terminations... well, if any form of contraception was 100% then that might be a valid opinion. But the only form of contraception that is 100% reliable is not having sex. The use of anything else still brings with it the chance of pregnancy, hence why some women will have multiple unplanned pregnancies.

Mammanat222 · 28/10/2014 14:39

"Why should repeated abortions be any different from others?"

To many people here they aren't.

To me - as I keep saying - they are a grey area. My personal opinion and doesn't mean I want to outlaw multiple abortion, just that it doesn't sit all that comfortably with me that some women will have upwards of 3 abortions. I think in these instances someone needs to look at why?

CatKisser · 28/10/2014 14:42

I agree with every word, Cotherstone.

Cotherstone · 28/10/2014 14:44

in these instances someone needs to look at why?

The why might simply be that the woman is incredibly fertile. It's not something that gets talked about that much, I think, but some women fall pregnant at the drop of a hat.

I could easily see a situation where a woman might end up having 3+ terminations during all the years she is capable of getting pregnant.

CatKisser · 28/10/2014 14:48

I think in these instances someone needs to look at why?
In that case, I think you could look at women who've had three+ unplanned pregnancies full stop, not just those who've chosen to terminate.
I think there are a multitude of possible reasons and yes, some might come down to irresponsibility but not all.

cloggal · 28/10/2014 14:52

Pro choice. I wouldn't be able to have an abortion myself, as far as I can currently imagine - but if I ever wanted/needed to I would, the idea that my reason might not be 'good enough' for the state is abhorrent. This means not liking a lot of other people's 'reasons', but supporting the right to choose as a basic human right that cannot be invalidated.

Mammanat222 · 28/10/2014 14:53

This is thread discussing abortion, I am not in a waiting room dissing someone who is about to have their 5th abortion?

I am actually supporting the OP's stance that yes you can still be pro-choice despite having your own personal judgements.

And yes if your contraception fails 3 times then maybe you do need to speak to a medical professional about alternatives.

Enb76 · 28/10/2014 14:59

I am utterly pro-choice. I think a woman should be able to have an abortion just because it's a Tuesday. I think the world would be a better place if abortion was not stigmatised and women were not made to feel guilty about terminating an unwanted pregnancy for whatever reason they wanted.

Cotherstone · 28/10/2014 14:59

You can talk to medical professionals all you like, if contraception isn't working that well for you, how much else can you do?

Sorry, this has only annoyed me as someone who has fallen pregnancy on the pill (and am no longer medically allowed to use hormonal contraceptive), using condoms, and also had a scare using the diaphragm.

It's not always that straightforward.

dreamerdoer · 28/10/2014 15:00

This is why I don't consider or describe myself as 'pro-choice', even though I am in favour of abortion being legal and available to women.

I am fundamentally against abortion. I think as a society everything possible should be done to prevent abortions (taking measures to prevent and severely punish rape, having contraception free and easily available to all, more education, much more financial and practical support for pregnant women and parents, counselling where wanted, making adoption easier). I would not personally countenance an abortion. BUT, I don't think I have the right to make that decision for other women (or think anyone else can).

So, I would like us as a society to get to the point where abortions are rare to non-existent, but I'm not going to prevent any individual woman from having one.

TheCowThatLaughs · 28/10/2014 15:04

Even women who people think are annoying have the choice of whether to have a baby or not! Aren't we lucky to live in such a society

DiaDuit · 28/10/2014 15:08

would like us as a society to get to the point where abortions are rare to non-existent

I think it much more of a priority for society that unwanted babies become rare to non existent.

Pyjamaramadrama · 28/10/2014 15:11

I imagine that not all pregnancies which end in abortion are unplanned.

I'm sure I read somewhere about a high number of babies conceived through IVF being aborted.

A woman's circumstances could change dramatically during a pregnancy and she may feel she cannot just cope with the baby she wanted.

It could also be a case of discovering that the baby has a severe disability, or that she's having a multiple birth which changes everything.

Mammanat222 · 28/10/2014 15:19

"Sorry, this has only annoyed me as someone who has fallen pregnancy on the pill (and am no longer medically allowed to use hormonal contraceptive), using condoms, and also had a scare using the diaphragm"

I am not meaning this as a personal attack on anyone. Believe me I know that contraception is not 100% effective (I have fallen pregnant using condoms)

I have also fallen pregnant when all but abstaining [we did it once, wasn't sure where I was in my cycle and decided not to bother with MAP].

Condom failure resulted in abortion, mid cycle bunk-up means I am now 28 weeks pregnant.

Still I have my grey areas, cannot help it and would never ram my opinion down anyone's throat in RL.

So I support choice but whilst knowing my choice will not be the same as someone else's.

It's just a shame I am being told that I cannot possibly be pro-choice as to be pro-choice I am not allowed to have my own personal opinions??

Mammanat222 · 28/10/2014 15:20

I'm sure I read somewhere about a high number of babies conceived through IVF being aborted.

This rings a bell with me too. Cannot remember where / when I read this though.

dreamerdoer · 28/10/2014 15:23

I think it much more of a priority for society that unwanted babies become rare to non existent.

That may be your priority, but its not mine. Where is this epidemic of unwanted babies in the UK? Oh, yes, thats right, there are actually less babies than people who want them in this country. Hence the rise in adoptions from abroad (something that is also becoming increasingly hard).

CatKisser · 28/10/2014 15:23

What does "grey area" actually mean though? Does it mean you judge anyone in that situation? You don't like what they're doing but think they should be allowed to do it unimpeded anyway?

I don't think you're not pro-choice at all but this grey area business just seems to be another stick for stigmatising women needing abortions.

Pyjamaramadrama · 28/10/2014 15:32

Dreamerdoer, there are thousands of children in care needing adoptive parents or long term foster care. But they can't find a match for them.

Most potential adopters want babies. And most parents don't give up their babies at birth.

Or perhaps some people would like to go back to the days when undesirable women had their children removed at birth and adopted to worthy couples?

WaitroseSucks · 28/10/2014 15:33

I think it much more of a priority for society that unwanted babies become rare to non existent. That may be your priority, but its not mine. Where is this epidemic of unwanted babies in the UK? Oh, yes, thats right, there are actually less babies than people who want them in this country. Hence the rise in adoptions from abroad (something that is also becoming increasingly hard).

So people should continue their unwanted pregnancies in order to provide babies for others?

Pyjamaramadrama · 28/10/2014 15:37

And anyway who said that there was an epidemic of unwanted babies?

There might be if we started restricting abortion.

Lots of women used to have horrific illegal abortions, that were dangerous to their health and fertility, people used to attempt to perform abortions at home using coat hangers. All of course before legal, safe abortion.

There have always been and always will be unwanted pregnancies, contraception fails, people takes risks and chances, women are forced into situations through rape and violence, people's circumstances change.

We tried it the other way and it didn't work.

DiaDuit · 28/10/2014 15:39

That may be your priority

No, i said society's.

People wanting babies they cant have and people having babies they dont want are not situation that cancel each other out! You cant say jane in green lane should continue her unwanted pregnancy because claire in maple avenue cant have children! The two issues are not connected and shouldnt be.

The prevention of unwanted babies being born should be a far higher priority than making abortion numbers palatable to you.

Pyjamaramadrama · 28/10/2014 15:39

Waitrose scarily I think that some people do believe that yes.

And that's what used to happen going back only 40-50 years ago didn't it?

Did anyone see that documentary a few weeks ago about the babies adopted out to America to Christian couples, it was back in the 50s, many ended up being abused and all sorts.

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