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Original poster

to be completely confused - pro/anti choice

345 replies

ScarletFever · 28/10/2014 12:49

I have ALWAYS considered myself pro-choice

and then this - remember that person Josie who is on the daily mail a lot, with her nhs boob job etc who has made a career of annoying people... who said

"i would have aborted my baby if it meant i could go on Big Brother"

Right - so I was like "oh you evil cow" etc......, but then it was pointed out somewhere, if you are pro-choice, then what difference does it mean if her reason is crap?

So, how do i get my head around it being 'ok to abort a disabled child, or if you are not ready for children, or even it is the wrong time (re career) to have a child' but not ok to abort a child for a 'celebrity' reason??

OP posts:
Mammanat222 · 28/10/2014 13:33

I am staunchly pro-choice but have my grey areas (non medical late abortion and multiple abortion being two areas that I struggle with) BUT I still support choice.

It isn't mu choice after all - it's the individual woman in question who has to make the decision.

Abortion will always be open to "abuse" but the minority but I genuinely believe that for the vast majority it is a last resort and not something that is done lightly.

Mammanat222 · 28/10/2014 13:34

Sorry that should say "It isn't my choice after all - it's the individual woman in question who has to make the decision"

Mammanat222 · 28/10/2014 13:35

Also OP you do know that the "celeb" in question is pretty dubious - I think she has since admitted she said what she did re: abortion in order to get publicity?

This isn't your "average" woman, this a complete car crash of a human being.

WalkingInMemphis · 28/10/2014 13:36

Is there really a huge difference between not wanting to get pregnant to avoid stretch marks and terminating a pregnancy to avoid stretch marks?

I'm not even really sure how to respond to that tbh Hmm

If you see abortion as so inconsequential that it is alike to contraception, then for that individual there would be no difference at all.

For most people though, yes, I would say there was a huge difference.

One reason I am using contraception atm is because we have a 'big' family holiday booked for next August and I would NOT want to be pregnant or have a newborn for it. I don't personally feel i'm bu to use contraception for such a reason. If I got pregnant though, it is nowhere near enough of a reason that I would terminate.

DiaDuit · 28/10/2014 13:37

What do you mean by 'open to abuse'?

Pyjamaramadrama · 28/10/2014 13:37

It depends how you see abortion though doesn't it? If you see abortion as something that is wrong, but acceptable in desperation, then it will seem callous.

If you believe that abortion is a medical procedure that harms noone but possibly the woman herself. Then it doesn't matter the reasons.

On the other hand, I seriously doubt that there is a woman in the world who has had an abortion purely because she doesn't want stretch marks. If in all other aspects of life she would love a baby and has the perfect set up, but she doesn't want stretch marks? Hmm, I think that this hypothetical woman probably doesn't want children anyway.

What if the woman doesn't want stretch marks because she is a model and it will ruin her career? Is that any different to a student training to become a doctor and a baby will ruin her career?

It becomes a feminist issue imo, what type of women are worthy of an abortion.

They ought to have been through something horrendous such as rape or risk to their life, it must be absolute contraception failure and they if course must feel really guilty.

Erm no, every women should be able to access a termination and reasons run far deeper than people imagine.

ghostyslovesheep · 28/10/2014 13:38

no the validity comes from this 'I do not want to be pregnant' - that is ALL

the reasons are totally irrelevant since they will vary from person to person

woman pregnant - woman doesn't want to be pregnant - women has the right to terminate

that is ALL there is to it - end of - if you are pro choice

DiaDuit · 28/10/2014 13:41

For most people though, yes, I would say there was a huge difference.

You cant really say that though, you can only speak for yourself and as you said, for others it would be fine. Your opinion being yours doesnt give it more validity than other opinions to anyone other than you.

WalkingInMemphis · 28/10/2014 13:43

I'm most annoyed with me, having problems reconciling how 'right' a choice can be

That makes you human is all. It's all very well to feel you should have black and white opinions about something, but is very rarely the case.

For instance - I am staunchly against murder. 100%. I think murderers should go to prison. I still secretly want Rob from Corrie to do a runner though so he can live out his days free instead of being sent to prison now he's confessed. So clearly, as a fickle human being, my viewpoints can be swayed by my own opinion of an individual [Yes I know it's not real...but just an indication of my black and white viewpoint of 'right' and 'wrong' being swayed by individual circumstances]

ghostyslovesheep · 28/10/2014 13:43

If I got pregnant though, it is nowhere near enough of a reason that I would terminate ...but for someone else it might well be a good enough reason ...which is why it's called a CHOICE - you have a choice and so should every other woman

differentnameforthis · 28/10/2014 13:44

I am all for women's choice.

That being, that any women, at any time, chooses what SHE & she alone does with her body.

If she is pregnant & cannot/does not want to continue that pregnancy, then that is her choice to make.

I would not welcome someone telling ME what to do with my body, how to life my life...therefore I cannot deign to think I am entitled to tell any one what to do with their body or life.

Pyjamaramadrama · 28/10/2014 13:44

What do you mean by abortion is open to abuse?

An abortion is a legal medical procedure that every woman from any walk of life can access if she feels that continuing with the pregnancy would be of detriment to her.

Where is that open to abuse?

DiaDuit · 28/10/2014 13:44

I seriously doubt that there is a woman in the world who has had an abortion purely because she doesn't want stretch marks. If in all other aspects of life she would love a baby and has the perfect set up, but she doesn't want stretch marks?

Why does she have to otherwise want children and be perfectly set up? Couldnt she just be a woman who didnt want stretch marks and always knew this and so when became pregnant carried on with the same thinking she'd always had?

WalkingInMemphis · 28/10/2014 13:46

DiaDuit - tbh my opinion is that you would be hard-pushed to find many people (on this thread or in rl) who saw no difference between someone using contraception to prevent pregnancies and someone using abortions to prevent pregnancies.

DiaDuit · 28/10/2014 13:47

I still secretly want Rob from Corrie to do a runner though so he can live out his days free instead of being sent to prison now he's confessed

I have literally just seen that confession 5 minutes ago! So glad i wasnt reading that comment first! Grin

WalkingInMemphis · 28/10/2014 13:49

Shock I didn't even think of the spoiler aspect of that post.

Sorry for anyone who hasn't seen it Blush

Trills · 28/10/2014 13:49

Why does she have to otherwise want children and be perfectly set up?

Because otherwise she's not having an abortion JUST to avoid stretch marks, she's having one for a number of reasons, of which stretch marks is one.

differentnameforthis · 28/10/2014 13:50

the sort of people who can have abortions in what we might consider "callous" or irresponsible situations are quite possibly exactly the sort of people who shouldn't be having babies anyway.

Hmm...what do you class as callous? You might find my reasons callous, yet I have 2 well bought up, lovely children. I am the mother they need, and if I had been forced to continue my unwanted pregnancy I certainly wouldn't have been that.

You have no idea what it feels like to be trapped by an unwanted pregnancy (that yes, I WAS using contraception...before anyone makes the leap that I didn't use contraception). I would do it again to make sure I remained the person I am & in order not to compromise on the love & care my children receive.

But you carry on making the assumption that I am quite possibly exactly the sort of person who shouldn't be having babies anyway

Mammanat222 · 28/10/2014 13:50

"What do you mean by abortion is open to abuse?"

Sorry I was talking about in relation to my personal grey areas (late non medical abortion and multiple abortion)

In 2013 37% of all abortions undertaken in England and Wales were repeat abortions. Which seems quite a high percentage.

Pyjamaramadrama · 28/10/2014 13:51

She doesn't have to be dia, I think that you are misunderstanding my point or I am not explaining well.

I feel that some people use a woman's reason as a club to Bash her over the head with. i.e she doesn't want stretch marks so she is callous, not worthy of having children anyway. When this is a ridiculous assumption to make. When the fact is that she doesn't want to have a baby, she doesn't want to continue with the pregnancy and that's that.

Trills · 28/10/2014 13:51

I would rather women were allowed to have abortions just to avoid stretch marks, than that additional restrictions were put in place that meant that women had to justify their decisions even more than they do now and made accessing abortion more difficult.

We still don't really have abortion on demand in the UK - two doctors must agree that an abortion would cause less damage to a woman's physical or mental health than continuing with the pregnancy

WalkingInMemphis · 28/10/2014 13:52

You have no idea what it feels like to be trapped by an unwanted pregnancy

That's a leaping assumption. How exactly do you know that?

DiaDuit · 28/10/2014 13:52

Why does she have to otherwise want children and be perfectly set up?

Because otherwise she's not having an abortion JUST to avoid stretch marks, she's having one for a number of reasons, of which stretch marks is one.

In my friend's case it would be for exactly that reason.

differentnameforthis · 28/10/2014 13:55

WalkingInMemphis In your case, I don't know...but as I wasn't answering you, that sentence clearly doesn't apply to you in this case.

But I understand what you are saying...perhaps the pp I was answering has been in that situation...

SaucyJackOLantern · 28/10/2014 13:56

My unwanted pregnancy is currently sat on the sofa blithering on about Monster High.......

By callous, I mean (for ex.) someone who wouldn't bother using contraception because terminating an unwanted pregnancy would be less effort for them than popping a pill every morning.