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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

About my niece being left alone

118 replies

lollipoppi · 27/10/2014 15:49

My DB and SIL both work shifts, their children often have to stay out upto 3 nights a week.
My niece is starting high school next year, she will be just 11yo

When DB and SIL shifts cross over on some mornings, approx 3 per week, they will be leaving my niece in the house on her own, expecting her to set an alarm, get herself up and ready for school, lock up the house and get to school, on her own

I have 2 children but they are a lot younger, so I can't really judge if this is ok to do but I just feel so upset for my niece, apart from all of the obvious dangers it just seems so wrong

OP posts:
davidjrmum · 27/10/2014 19:23

There's a big transition when children go to senior school as, on the whole, they are expected to get there on their own. If like the OP, your children are still at primary school it's difficult to imagine you feeling comfortable with them having more independence. My youngest dd had a 25 minute walk to senior school across main roads - I remember worrying about her walking in to town with her friends in the summer in between junior and senior school and then realising that just a few weeks later she'd be walking through town with her friends every day on the way to school and back! My eldest dd went from being dropped off at primary school every day to needing to get herself to the bus stop and a 20 minute bus journey to school on her own (we lived in a smallish village at the time). I'm not sure why an 11 year old is necessarily in a huge amount more danger inside a house on their own than they are walking the streets to school on their own. However, as others have said, does depend on the child too.

Original poster
lollipoppi · 27/10/2014 19:24

She is still a juniors at the moment, this would be from September next year, she will be just 11

She would ultimately be in the house alone from 4am, that's the bit that doesn't sit right with me tbh

I'm not worried about her leaving the house to get to school, there is a bus stop right around the corner

OP posts:
Babiecakes11 · 27/10/2014 19:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

micah · 27/10/2014 19:30

Well it's extremely common on London. Nearly all secondary school age children get themselves to and from school on public transport.

Once children get to 11 there is no after or before school care provision for working parents, so they do leave them to let themselves in and out. No other choice.

Scrumbled · 27/10/2014 19:30

I think it depends on the child. My eldest son was a youngish 11 when he started high school. He was fine at getting himself home and to an empty house from his last term in year 6. He's quite self sufficient, my youngest one will probably be 25 before he's happy ;)

I would doubt his ability to get up and out the house in time but a couple of detentions would sharpen his mind.

Morloth · 27/10/2014 19:33

I think that is fine.

My 10 year old has chosen not to attend after school club from next year and will let himself in for a couple a couple of hours.

We ARE in the house in the mornings but he gets himself up and ready for school.

CP my arse. They are not babies at 11.

snipsnipsnippysnip · 27/10/2014 19:34

I know an 11 child that looks after her mother. Many 11 year olds are very capable.
I would expect they have spoken to her about "what would you do if..." etc and judged her able.

gimcrack · 27/10/2014 19:34

My dad worked shifts and my mum used to leave for work really early. I used to get myself up, breakfasted and out at 11. I think it's fine.

Humansatnav · 27/10/2014 19:36

My mum and dad had to leave me from 5:30 every morning as we had a newsagents.
At 11 I had to get myself up, washed dressed, quick walk for the dog, then breakfast and off to school.
Mum would ring at 8:15 am on the dot to check I was ok.
BUT my dads cousin and his family lived next door but one if I needed them.

Itsfab · 27/10/2014 19:36

My 11 year old is probably sensible enough to do this but whether she would want to be left is another thing. I can see my 13 year old son liking it even less. What does the child want to do or does she feel pushed into it? Seems wrong to me. Half an hour to an hour alone after school is different to sleeping all night alone and then doing all the morning stuff on there own.

LePetitPrince · 27/10/2014 19:38

I would not be comfortable with it. There has been a spate of robberies around here, mostly for the car keys, and always early hours of the morning. I would use family or hire an Au Pair.

VileStatistyx · 27/10/2014 19:39

I think if she is fine with it, then it should be fine.

I don't think it's as common now as it used to be but certainly me and my sister used to get ourselves up and ready for school and went there and back by ourselves (over a mile walk, main roads, fields - and across a field, crossing a stream by walking along a pipe! Grin). It started when I started secondary school. My sister is nearly 3 years younger than me, so she was still in primary then. Mum would have left for work at about 5am (cleaner) and dad was either in bed or at work (miner and on shifts) so we had to sort ourselves out.

couple of years later and mum had a second cleaning job in the afternoons too, so we'd also come home to either an empty house or dad in bed (which was worse than an empty house. At least if nobody at all was home, we wouldn't get screamed at if we forgot to whisper or tiptoe round the house). Dinner in the microwave, watch tv (sound right down if dad was in bed). Mum back about 9 or 10. Dad either got up and went to work or got in from work and went to bed, depending on shift.

We pretty much sorted ourselves out and most kids on the estate with working parents were the same back then.

re poorly - if we woke up feeling ill, we stayed at home and mum would find us still there when she got back. We didn't have a phone. I assume your niece does, so could call for someone if there was a problem.

In many ways, kids seem a lot younger now than they used to. It's funny. They are exposed to so much these days that we just had no clue about and in many ways seem a lot older for their years - but when it comes to self sufficiency and just getting on with your day to day stuff - they've never seemed younger. It's an odd combination.

NeedsAsockamnesty · 27/10/2014 19:41

I think social services would see it as a child protection issue if she is home alone, so even if she is completely able and willing to look after herself it would be foolish in my opinion to risk involvement from social workers

That's a joke right?

Assuming we are talking about a average 11yo with no issues who actively wants this responsibility then no it would not be something that would be a problem.
Children in secondary school are usually expected to take responsibility for managing their school commitments including getting there

ModreB · 27/10/2014 19:41

I was left from the middle of Y6, beginning of Y7. For 2 to 6 hrs each end of the day, depending on Dm's shifts. I had a 20 min walk in Y6, 30 min bus ride in Y7. I had no choice, DM worked 24 hr rotating shifts, not so dear SF didn't. He was drunk in bed at the time. Each end of the day. Every day.

I worked out my own schedule, with alarm clocks. I became very independent and responsible for my own actions, including washing, being fed, (feeding myself) keeping clothes nice, ironing etc, at an age I didn't think was inappropriate at the time. But, that was 30 years ago, and I never wanted my DS's to have to do that. And they never have.

And, TBH, I still resent my DM for it.

wigglesrock · 27/10/2014 19:44

From 4am until time to get up for school? I think it's fine, especially as she's not responsible for getting younger siblings up and out. If she's happy enough then I don't see a problem with them giving it a go. As you said they have alternatives if it doesn't work out. I can understand an 11 year old wanting to stay in her own house in the evenings rather than sleep over at a relatives a few times a week.

MassaAttack · 27/10/2014 19:46

Alone from 0400, day in, day out. That's not sustainable long term.

wigglesrock · 27/10/2014 19:47

It's up to 3 times a week, is it not?

MassaAttack · 27/10/2014 19:47

And, TBH, I still resent my DM for it

Similar for me in the 80s. It's piss poor.

lemonpuffbiscuit · 27/10/2014 19:48

I think 11 is fine to get up and get to school as long as she can check in by text to say shes arrived at school. I would feel very odd leaving a child from 4am to 7am though

ImperialBlether · 27/10/2014 19:49

Could you have her to sleep over on those nights?

gentlehoney · 27/10/2014 19:52

"Why would social services see it as a CP issue gentlehoney?"

I dont personally see it as an issue (in these circumstances) and hopefully the authorities would agree that it is the best option, but the NSPCC has guidelines (not laws) about it that indicate otherwise.
If it was me, I would be frightened of being suspected of neglect, but maybe more people should stand up for what they think is best for their child?

I expect that if someone reported it it would be investigated, at least. (assuming the child is left alone for some of the night)

This is from the Gov.UK site....
The law on leaving your child home alone
The law doesn’t say an age when you can leave a child on their own, but it’s an offence to leave a child alone if it places them at risk.
Use your judgement on how mature your child is before you decide to leave them alone.

The National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (NSPCC) says:

children under 12 are rarely mature enough to be left alone for a long period of time
children under 16 shouldn’t be left alone overnight
babies, toddlers and very young children should never be left alone
Parents can be prosecuted if they leave a child unsupervised ‘in a manner likely to cause unnecessary suffering or injury to health’.

lemonpuffbiscuit · 27/10/2014 19:54

I think it is preferable for a child to have some company over breakfast, a nice chat and a hug before leaving the house. The child also has to learn independence skills though

gentlehoney · 27/10/2014 20:08

Are the "My arse" and "is this a joke" comments necessary? Hmm It is a perfectly valid point that it could be a protection issue (see NSPCC guidlelines) even you don't agree with it!

BreakOutTheKaraoke · 27/10/2014 20:13

I wouldn't have a problem with it, although I would definitely start it in the summer- I think it's bit easier for the child to get used to when it's light outside when they get up, waking up in the dark by yourself can be a bit scary.

My DD is 10, and is left by hersel about once a fortnight for the half an hour before school starts. She is already dressed and ready, but has to set off on time herself, locking up as she goes, as I need to set off for work. We've been doing this since the week before summer holidays with no problems. She also is happy to stay by herself in the house during the day for whatever length of time, with no issues.

Morloth · 27/10/2014 20:17

I don'tresent my pparents at all and i had way more freedom than the OP is talking about.

i used to walk from my school to collect my little brother from preschool/kindy/juniors then walk home, let us Iin get something to eat etc. My older siblings would be in around 5ish followed by Mum by around 630pm.

DH and I were reminiscing about our childhoods while making the decision about DS1 and we both loved it.

My parents did an awesome job, if I do say so myself. Grin

I moved overseas at 21 and have never had an issue looking after myself, and can pretty much handle anything as a result of what people on here would probably think was slack parenting.