IAB a tad U but friend's choice of term to describe childbirth is getting on my tits

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She refers to vaginal birth as "X doing it themselves". As in "did she do it herself?" Always going on about how she "did it herself" when had her DD.

I had a section, she knows I was on ADs for a good year after the birth due to PND which was partly caused by massive guilt over the fact I didn't have a natural birth.

It pisses me off no end. I should really say something to her instead of moaning about it on the internet. Or, is this a normal term????? No one else I know particularly cares as long as new baby and mother are healthy! Seems like half the staff in our school are pregnant/have had babies recently so lots of opportunity for it to get on my wick.

So, AIBU to be annoyed? And what do I say? Or should I get over it?

Why can't a woman be proud of having given birth to her child? If she had been in labour 6 hours would you let her be just a little bit proud?

Why are women so derogatory about childbirth?

Are there any births that a mother should not be proud of?

Of course not. All mothers should be proud of bringing a baby in this world.

My first child was born via section @ 34 weeks because my waters ruptured due to group b strep. My second child was born via section because of a placental abruption. I feel upset when some mums drum into me that they are proud of their natural birth done on 'gas and air only' or they pushed it out 'like a piece off piss'.

On the other hand I am being unreasonable because I am getting offended at my own insecurity regarding my own labour and birth.

It's hard

I've given birth 3 times. A 'did it myself' one, an emergency c section and an elective c-section.
I'd choose the planned, calm, smooth going elective one over all the others as being my best experience.

op I have done it both ways, I was also told my a glowy MW I must have amazing CB hips, passed out baby in only 8 hours, first time, and with one small tear, only.

She waxed lyrical about my amazing birth, and how my body was a natural for it.

Now the reason she was talking to me in the first place was because I didn't want to do it again.

I pointed out to her, actually in CB your body pretty much takes over in the same way you have any other body function, like a poo or being sick. That my hips may be great but my Brain and me, knitted found the whole thing to painfiul.

Mucles contract and it all does its thing. YOU, your soul and essence are not part of the process. Its merely a bodily function, like doing a poo or having some help via senacot.

Second time round I had a section and it was soooo much better, so much better and I enjoyed the birth.

You need to ask yourself why you feel guilty, I suggest its because of dangerous culture and ideologies - usually spouted in SOME NCT type groups.

I did it myself. The paramedics arrived 10mins later and the midwife just as we were leaving for hospital.

Not an experience I'd like to repeat!

We should all be proud of having produced children.

To be proud of a five-hour labour is like saying you're proud of not having had impetigo.

Doobledutch I see what you mean. I can't speak for others but for me its the questioning of how a woman gave birth I.e did you do it yourself rather than how the birth went that I object to.

In my case after DS I felt so disappointed in myself that having to say "no" was like admitting to others that I didn't manage to do it and was hugely upsetting and embarrassing at the time, if someone had asked me how had my labour/birth gone I could've explained that after 16 hours of labour only to be told I wasn't dilating past 3cm and DS' heart rate was setting alarms off left right and centre they had to do an Emergency section to save his life or I could've just said it didn't go very well and I wasn't up to speaking about it, it was no fault of my own and I needed time to process that without being quizzed.

Of course now I understand I could've said that in the first place but at the time it was raw.

I don't object to sharing birth stories at all and in fact I loved hearing from people I knew who'd had vaginal water births in my second pregnancy as that's just what I wanted, I just think there's a time and a place to share/ask.

I would also like to point out that I am Glaswegian and its still not a normal question to ask IMO.

What a funny phrase. With my first there were some 20 people around eventually, some stitching up the great big injury I did to myself. To spite myself, presumably.

Mine was natural. I tore and sex is difficult, painful and traumatic 8 months, one operation and countless Drs appointments later. I understand that a C Section is not an easy option but I certainly wish I'd had one so my marriage could include some more shagging!! She's a very silly cow.

Squtternutbush oh yes I get that point, I would only ever ask an open/ vague question about how things went.

needasliverlining why can't I be proud of my three hour labour?

See, this is what I object to with the pride thing. Not the perfectly nice women with the lovely babies and the thankfully simple birth stories - the women who had a terrible time through no fault of their own and FEEL GUILTY ABOUT IT AS WELL.

OP, Squtter: you conceived and grew those babies. You love them. No-one looking at them can tell how they got into the world, which suggests strongly that in the long run it doesn't matter a damn.

I feel guilty about TONS of stuff: working, shouting, feeding them crap, not filling in forms for school. Being shit at having babies? Can honestly say that's never bothered me.

Double, you can be proud of it, of course, but it's like me being proud of the colour of my eyes. They're not down to a conscious action on my part.

My mum had a section followed by 2 vbacs. She maintains to this day, -30 years later- give me a vaginally birth every time. The c - section was so much harder. Congratulations on surviving your section and bringing a healthy baby into the world. Your friend is mad if she thinks the manner of delivery has any baring on the birth of a baby.

I also think it's a shame that people just consider the end part as the important bit, the whole of pregnancy and childbirth is a gruelling physical and mental marathon really, and we all run our own race, and just like when I run a 10K or a half marathon, I'm never going to win, but that doesn't mean I can't be proud of myself for taking part.

I do wonder sometimes if it's a symptom of a patriarchal and intrinsically misogynistic society, women mustn't be allowed to thing that being responsible for regenerating the species is anything special in case they start getting ideas above their station.

needasilverlining there you go again, you just assume I was a passive bystander in quite an extraordinary experience that I actually played quite a large role in.

I've had this OP - not that phrase, but the kind of passive aggressive 'my labour was more real than yours.' The first time it happened, I smiled and let it go over my head.

The second time it was mentioned, I went into minute detail about the reasons for my emergency section and all the complications during my pregnancy and labour that led up to it. Shut the daft cow up.

I don't understand why some women are competitive about this. We should all be proud of how we bring our children into the world, and appreciate that different people have different experiences.

These idiots who think a section is an easy option can listen to a very detailed lecture from me!

I had a c section after 3 days Labour, a dural tap and a failed ventouse and forceps. My baby had crowned but was completely stuck
It was a ga, baby with no heart beat and a push out and shove up job via c section
She's 15 now and has been severely disabled since she was born really, but dx at 2-3 yrs old with a gdd
I still got ppl saying I had it easy, I was too posh push or I hadn't experienced a real birth...

Hmm it felt real enough tbqh. It still does

Dooble, I was coming back on to say how much I loved that first sentence in your last but one post - "I also think it's a shame that people just consider the end part as the important bit, the whole of pregnancy and childbirth is a gruelling physical and mental marathon really, and we all run our own race, and just like when I run a 10K or a half marathon, I'm never going to win, but that doesn't mean I can't be proud of myself for taking part."

That's the common ground that makes this debate pointless IMO.

I don't mean at all to suggest you're a passive bystander - I also made some very important decisions about my far more medicalised experience which had a profound effect on the outcome.

My needing a medicalised birth wasn't as a result of any choice of mine, and having a short and uncomplicated labour didn't happen purely because you decided to have one. That's all I meant and I truly apologise if I have made you feel belittled.

FWIW even if I'd had an easy labour I'd prob have begged for every drug going. I'm a wuss.

Thank you. I do understand your point and I know there are a huge amount of things that we have no control over in pregnancy in birth, but as you may have noticed I am a bit hung up on view this creates that women are passive in the process, I just think it's quite disempowering and creates an unnecessary climate of fear.

At the stage we're at in terms of obstetric knowledge and the procedures available, the majority of women should feel confident and secure about giving birth (in whatever way is necessary), but instead so many women are terrified. There are bound to be many reasons for this but in my view there is definitely something amiss with the way we talk about birth.

I do feel proud of my labour and birth, I think I did really well in terms of staying calm, listening to my body, dealing with plans changing, physically pushing a 10 pound baby toddler into the world, I also think I would be proud if I had had a c-section, a cesarean is a very real possibility for me this week and I feel like it's a much bigger undertaking for me than my first birth, yes in a way I will be more in a passive role, but my anxieties around surgery and the recovery are much much greater than my anxieties around vaginal birth. If I do end up having a cesarean I think I will feel like I have overcome more personally than if I have another v-birth, that's not to say women should feel more proud of either type of birth, just that if they want to feel proud of what is a huge thing to do in your life then that is up to them.

I think that feeling proud of things that just happen without any real personal influence is normal, I felt proud when my ds learnt to walk, I'm proud that he is so articulate, I have friends who are proud that their dc are very pretty or athletic or intelligent, really all these things are mostly down to luck but I don't think it's harmful to feel pride over them.

I think problems start when people feel their experience is better than someone else's or when an individual feels inferior to someone who had the experience they were hoping for but I think quite truthfully everyone is so busy thinking about their own lives to be judging other people's lives.

I don't disagree. But I wonder if part of the problem is the way we conflate the two strands?

For example - you and I both felt confident and involved in our very different births. But I think too often the message is lost or distorted, and women are left feeling that they're either drug-free and in the birthing pool, OR passively at the mercy of the medical profession - no middle ground. When in truth, it ought to be that you inform yourself, you work with the care team, and you deal with each situation as it arises - and in that way, you're actively part of the process, whether you need no intervention or lots.

I've had three CS

Because I'm fucking lazy and I wanted someone else to do it for me

Took me 72 hours to do it myself the first time, because I'm a lazy cow.

I do get your point double in that I had a horrible time first time through fear and panic (and exhaustion) and the 24 hours of labour second time were no problem and I was in the zone (but my prolapsed cord was not, sadly). It's no a passive position, but the level of control and influence is very small really. Not anyone here, but I have read endless smuggery over the years who think they had an easy birth because of their actions, which does suggest to the vulnerable and traumatised that they just should have Bally well done something different.

I love hearing about positive happy births though, vaginal or section, because pregnant people need to hear them!