AIBU to say no to this gift for the baby

[MrsDutchie]

DH and I are expecting first baby in December. My parents are very religious Christians. So far they bought a Noah's Ark book for the baby (I know, it will be a long time before baby can read it) and a large Noah's Ark clock for the nursery.

Thing is, this bothers me. I know it's a lovely gift and gesture but DH and I are not religious, and don't plan on bringing baby up to any particular religion. My parents know this yet they still push with religious gifts and I am 100% certain this is only the beginning. They usually give religious gifts as baby presents to other non-Christians as a way to tell them about Jesus.

I've been quite firm with DM that it makes me uncomfortable that it's religious but she pushes it quite hard. How do I broach this & AIBU for being so bothered by it? After all, I could just get it out when they visit.

I've never been able to fathom how anyone can think all the cute animals in Noah's Ark transform a story, where the main drama is God killing all the people in the world, suitable, even sought out, subject matter for young children!!

The Ark burned its bridges with me when it failed to wait for the Unicorns to board.

My MN quote of the month!

YABU, it's a harmless gift, it barely has a religious overtone, and even then flood myths and arks are not specifically Christian, but common to many religions. It's even a good story to discuss how many religions have it and how it might've been part of why and how early humans might've invented gods to explain environmental changes. If that's the sort of thing you want to do to proselytize your atheism.

Your P are certainly being unreasonable to give you overtly religious gifts if you've asked them not to, but you don't seem to have actually done that yet. Returning the gift without having said it would not be welcome first is U.

I don't think children also have many people around them telling them that the Wolf is a true and real force in life, as can they do about God.

I'm an atheist but my DD (6) believes God to be real, influenced by relatives, father and RE at school! She is well aware the big bad wolf and other story characters are just that.

I recycled the board board of Noah's Ark we were given - I couldn't bring me to inflict it on anyone else via the charity shop.

BeCool I'd just skip over the people bit! It's not true anyway.

we are fortunate to have an extensive home library - it's no worse off for not having a copy of Noah's Ark.

we are subjected to a barrage of religious gifts from my parents-in-law and we are vaguely religious ourselves but it doesnt mean that every gift from my childrens grandparents needs to be bible books! we have something like 5 different junior prayer books, several baby board books, 3 copies of joseph and his technicolour dreamcoat, loads of noah's ark stuff.

its hard. we are cowards and just keep the gifts. the only one we complained about was 2 books about explaining death to children (after the death of great grannie).

if they are going to pressure you then you need to speak out.

"BeCool I'd just skip over the people bit! It's not true anyway."

So now as an atheist you not only have a duty to tell your children religious stories (I'm relatively on-board with that, in an inclusive way), you also have a duty to improve them and make the story nicer?

I like Noah and his ark: its a fun story and no more silly or supernatural than anything with fairy godmothers in it. It has scope for great illustration/ decorating ideas too. I think the gifts sound lovely.

I am an atheist, by the way.

YABU, by the way... your DP can but be themselves.

It's a "fun story" with genocide central to the plot, though.

we are atheists and DD (infant school) is undecided...depends what her friends think.

Despite our complete ambivalence, god stuff does crop up a lot in daily references (is 'god' a swearword? why do we sing about jesus at christmas etc). So we have to explain but in a 'this is what some people think' way. A bit like some people like football, others can't bear it...just a matter of personal choice.

So letting your child know about bible stories, in the appropriate context, will allow them to understand lots of references and be able to decide for themselves if they are religious. I would accept gift and pack it away/regift/pass to charity shop later down the track.

I have to admit I think Noah's ark is weird when used as a decor scheme for children. I've seen churches with a big ark for a playground, etc, and I just find it unsettling.

I get it, kids love boats and animals. But I'd just do a jungle theme or something instead, as far as a room theme goes.

I'm quite religious BTW. I've thought about getting a little ark for the kids to play with at church, but...it seems strange.

TBH I think you could actually use their pushy attitudes to your own advantage. If they insist in pushing religion on your child it gives you more opportunities, at an earlier age, to explain that you don't believe in the 'stories' but that they must respect the beliefs of others by being kind and polite.

I think YABU to refuse gifts. I am no longer religious but was raised a pentecostal (so heavily indoctrinated as a child). I can't keep my DS away from family and friends who see it as their life's duty to evangelise - plus I think it's beneficial for him to be exposed to the reasons why people around him live their lives and think the way they do.

I happily read my DS Noah's ark and other bible stories, and when he gets older will discuss it with him explaining that some people take it literally, others metaphorically, and explore what he finds in it for himself. I hated being so indoctrinated that it was impossible to even consider that any other option in life was a possibility, I eventually left my former faith but had nightmares of eternal damnation for years.

The key part of what I'm trying to say is - it's far more important to me to teach my DS to think for himself, than it is to teach him that something is a load of bollocks I will however make sure he has all the facts available and a good history of religions to see how certain stories are re-hashed from time to time such as a rising and dying god.

It's also important to me that I teach my DS how to emphathise with reasons others are as they are.

Think of it from their POV: Nothing more painful than believing people you love are eternally damned. At least humour them that you respect what they've given their lives to.

My children have had various Noah's Ark toys. I've never once felt the urge to tell them the story of Noah. Without the story, the toys are only boats containing a selection of random animals.

I did catch DD watching a bit of Evan Almighty a few weeks ago but have not detected any sign of burgeoning Christianity so far.

It does sound a little as though you are regularly asking your parents to hide their religion out of sight, when it sounds like it is pretty fundamental to the way they live their lives.

It's a legend that appears in some form or other in many ancient cultures and religions. Will you not let your children hear about Hercules, Santa or little red riding hood? IMHO it's part of cultural understanding and education. You don't have to believe in God to know about Noah. It's just an easy way for small kids to learn about animals.

Yabu unreasonable to refuse gifts on behalf of someone else. There is joy in giving. To snub that is cruel.

I'd just accept it...this time.

Anything more overt, I'd tell them where the line was crossed.

It's more about their push for religion than the actual gifts... and it will be hard to draw those boundaries through the years... if they babysit they might bring childrens' bible stories to read, at their house they might say blessings before eating, dropping comments about Jesus doing XYZ etc.

I think you will have to make peace with the fact that they are religious and it is important to them, and as your child gets to know them they will be exposed to it.

But never fear, it won't mean your child will be religious, or indoctrinated etc. They will learn to be old enough to appreciate different people believe different things, different people have different rules etc. Just like X's family lets you watch TV after tea, but mine don't.

You will have to stand firm on the issues you can control (choose whether to baptise, attend church etc) and have the grace to let the issues outside your control slide. The trick will be when (and I think more likely when than if) the comments come that "it's a shame your parents didn't want to baptise you into the one true faith" come - they need to be shut down... if you respect their religion and their choices, then they need to respect yours. Any lack of respect for your choices must be addressed immediately, and made clear that isn't acceptable.

YANBU. My family are Catholic but mum & dad are pretty tolerant, I was raised Catholic but don't practice, DH is not Catholic or religious at all. However, my aunt (mum's sister, childless, generally means well but v overbearing & can be v narrow minded esp where religion is concerned) keeps trying to give me religious stuff for the baby & badger me about when the christening is (we may get the baby baptised but it's not a priority and certainly won't be within weeks of the birth!)

The latest unwanted gift was a stained glass sticker for the nursery window. I just laughed and said "oh haha, we're not putting religious stuff on the walls!" she got all huffy and said "FINE I'll take it back then" to which I responded pleasantly "okay then" - which annoyed her further as it that point I was obviously meant to go "oh no don't, I'll put it up straight away, how lovely". Which I didn't, obviously. I had years of being forced to go to Mass against my will, I don't agree with the catholic church on most things, i'm not putting religious iconography on my walls to keep my batty aunt happy!

The way I see it, this is just the first of many battles of people trying to tell you how to parent your child, best to set boundaries firmly and early. I think it's incredibly rude to try to force your religuious belief on someone (and someone else's child, and someone else's decor!). I wouldn't put a political party poster that I didn't agree with on my kid's wall just to keep someone happy, religion is no different IMO.

I have some very religious family members (including two vicars) and on the whole they have been very good about not pushing their beliefs on my children (we are atheist). Every now and then my mother does like to talk about Bible stories as if they are both completely true and that somehow she observed them/ heard about them first hand. This wasn't much of an issue when my children were small but once they got older and started having strong views of their own they have found it very difficult to respond to (given the need to be polite to their granny).

If I were you, I would buy a children's book featuring a story from the Koran, another from the Torah, another one from Greek and/or Roman gods, another book of popular fables and another one about the Big Bang or any other science-y stuff and put them all together on the "baby's book shelf". Then you point it to them and tell them how grateful you are that your baby will be exposed to a broad range of beliefs and opinions, so he grows up with an open and critical mind.

i agree with aurynne, particularly find the story of Mithra(s).

jdstone.org/cr/files/mithraschristianity.html

And look into the Solstices and Equinoxes, dates which are now important festivals in the Christian calendar but spring from thousands of years earlier, particularly Winter Solstice Dec21 the shortest day in which the SUN (not son of God) is 'born'

Don't forget a dreamcatcher either, that's a lovely story, www.dream-catchers.org/

If you really want to freak them out, you can paint a pentagram on the nursery wall
www.angelfire.com/id/robpurvis/pentagram.html