AIBU' Men are as faithful as their options'.

[needyoumorethanwantyou]

The US comedian Chris Rock said this a few years ago. Obviously it was a glib comedic response to the Monica Lewinsky scandal and the response by his male political opponents about how disgusting it was yet, it was very unlikely anyone was 'trying to blow them' in political office and if someone was trying, they'd probably do the same.

Obviously everyone is an individual and women cheat too so I'm not just talking about men but AIBU to think there's some truth in this?.

I see so many threads on MN about long (decades in some cases) relationships when an infidelity comes out of the blue. I don't believe that all of these men/women were unhappy in their relationship beforehand. I think most of them were.....before they were presented with another option.

Shirley Glass even says in her book about infidelity that people need to have strict boundaries about interpersonal relations outside of their romantic relationship, particularly with work mates. But isn't that saying that if someone has chance to spend enough time with someone else and there's mutual attraction, an affair will often follow?.

It's happened to friends of mine who have been devastated by apparent complete changes of character from the partner they thought would never be unfaithful.

I also know of partners that aren't cheating but do try it on with other people and if they weren't knocked back, they would be cheating!.

And I totally disagree with this idea that OW/OM cause the problem, 'offering it on a plate' or whatever. I think it's that the cheat probably wasn't presented with an alternative to their spouse/partner before and when they were - they went for it.

I am a bit world-weary I admit!. But often when I hear 'oh, they'd never cheat' I do sometimes think...maybe that's just because they don't have the opportunity.

AIBU?.

Blimey Bogey those are awesome!

:o

( . ) ( . )

MY EYES!

This is probably a very unfashionable view to take, but...

I think fidelity and trust aren't an action or a temptation, but a lived practice. It's something you have to do every single day, and earn every single day. It's the way that you don't make suggestive eye contact with strangers in public space, inviting them in. It's the way that you set clear boundaries in any conversation with someone new, right from the start. It's the way you keep relations with colleagues professional. It's the way that you casually turn an invitation to flirt away. It's the way that you offer care and support to those around you, without opening the door. It's the way that, if a beautiful woman in a stunning dress walks past you, you know DH won't be eyeballing her in that awful and disrespectful way some men have. (My ex used to do this and ugh, ugh, ugh).

It's also the way you nurture and work on your relationship so that you have trust and care between you. It's about not putting yourself in places or situations where infidelity is likely. It's about always telling the truth to each other. You don't have to do everything together, but sharing friends and socialising together at least some of the time can really help. This will be controversial I'm sure, but I believe that being open in terms of privacy is also important - DH has access to my email, facebook, twitter, phone, the lot, and vice versa. He would never dream of checking, but I know that if I were ever to feel like I had to delete a message to keep it away from him, that would be a major red flag that something inappropriate was happening.

All that boring, everyday stuff basically.

Joan married men in that age group aren't going to care much about how you look. You don't need to be especially physically attractive to them to get advances for an affair. Just physically available and apparently willing.

Just the fact that you (consciously or not -- beginning to think the former rather than the latter based on your later posts about keeping your options open) don't make yourself unavailable to them is enough to spur them on. If you said NO outright and displayed behaviour that said the same, they would leave you alone. Of course I am not blaming you for their infidelity, just saying that they are not doing it in a vacuum. Men don't pick women out of nowhere to have an affair with, it's something that they court over time based on the reaction they get to their initial contact.

I think the fact that that married man who said he wanted to spend his life with you or whatever (your first scenario) sent you over the edge says more about you and your insecurities and what you project to men than anything else you've written.

I'm not having a go at you btw, just saying that it's easy for you to say "look at all these married men throwing themselves at plain old me, therefore all married men would cheat" than to take any responsibility for the messages you send to them or your reactions to them.

I guess Christ Rock was talking about himself and this may have come from discussions he has had with his friends

I think there is some truth in it for men and women society put constraints on us and we do so ourselves it makes is feel safe and we want and desire commitment. And we are not put in those situations we have to go and seek it. He is not taking about love, how you feel about your partner/relationship he is taking about sex and our natural desire to have sex with someone who we are attracted to even if that attraction is fleeting

People who have sex outside their relationship are not always unhappy or looking for excitement it's just the opportunity is there it is exciting and it happens

No one can predict what they or themselves will do we can feel very strongly or have trust but human nature itself is unpredictable at times of it was not humans would be a lot easier to understand

I love Chris Rock he certainly likes to throw controversial questions out

I'm nodding at LaQueen's post about some men wanting glitter and sprinkles on their cake. I believe that to be true. Marriage is not very easy to get out of and you certainly can't do it unscathed. I think that more marriages would be walked away from if it were that easy. It's not that the man (or woman) can't bear the thought of leaving their spouse, it's the gamut of negative consequences that come with that - access to children, arguments with spouse, loss of connection with hitherto untouched daily life and judgement from peers.

It's certainly not that they love their partner except in the most removed and general terms because if they did, they wouldn't cheat. They wouldn't risk it all for something that they don't care about. Whether there's a likelihood of getting caught or not (and many people don't), they just wouldn't risk it if their family was all important to them.

Cynically though I think I'd add a caveat to that... the older the married couple, the more risks the man thinks he can take. If caught, his wife is more unlikely (than a younger woman would be) to end the marriage and start again because loss of security and perceived 'wellbeing' associated with a long marriage still counts for a great deal.

Scarlettlovesrhett, absolutely, totally spot on.

Been thinking a bit more about the "just haven't been tempted enough" aspect.

Some people have decided that they would never take drugs as it just doesn't sit right with their personal moral code.

(Fricking touchscreen)

It's a bit like other drug users saying they just haven't been tempted enough with a fat enough line of coke at a party. It just isn't true. We all have our own moral code. There are things some people just would not do regardless of how nice it might be.

I think that's true and great if it applies to you and comes easily (like never even trying a ciggerette) But there is a danger there of the allure of the unknown. I would much rather have an honest conversation with a dp along the lines of us both being free to do what we wanted but with our eyes open and then choosing to remain faithful. I used to be something of a serial cheat, but I know what a mess it can make so I choose not to.

Joan if you're getting as many offers as you claim to be, you are sending signals.

When we keep brining up the issue of morals we could be denying our desire or needs is our moral code what is most important

We can trust ourselves in our own certainty but what if all we know suddenly changes what if circumstances change beyond anything we could have ever predicted how often do we hear people say I never dreamed he/she/I would do blah blah

Human nature is very complex at times our desire to seek danger, pleasure can not be explained as we can not understand it ourselves

We could push all our feelings away to uphold our moral code but somehow it could still impact our lives

Joan married men in that age group aren't going to care much about how you look
Excellent. I'm in with a chance then.
No, sorry, you're not correct. They do care. But they also care about whether you have a decent income, own a house etc. They want you plus nest egg. Some of them want a safe haven to run to when they leave the wife.
Joan if you're getting as many offers as you claim to be, you are sending signals
I'm not on some ego trip here, "Look at me, MNers, men fancy me!" I've just noticed that married men come on to me. The only signals sent out are that its obvious I'm single (no rings, live alone).
Watch your husbands and partners! Perfectly innocent quiet old ladies are being approached by them for shags they had no intention of offering!

That is inordinately sad.

For married women, certainly.

In my youth/student days there was quite a lot of bed-hopping and I'm not proud to say I did cheat on boyfriends sometimes. The relationships weren't very serious and there were no DC, but it wasn't nice. I have also been cheated on, which is also horrible.

But it did teach me that the grass is not greener and there is no one outside your relationship who can magically sort out your problems. Of the affairs I've experienced and many more I've seen, pretty much all have just caused pain and ended up failing to meet expectations.

I think people get carried away with excitement, lust and a distraction from the routine drudgery, but it almost always comes back to bite them on the arse. They realise the OW/OM is actually a twat, or the OW/OM leaves them, or it just turns into a tawdrier, less trusting version of what they already had. Often they go crawling back to find their ex has moved on.

So I don't see affairs as tempting - I've certainly experienced fancying people and chemistry with other people while I've been in a relationship, but it's better to just sit it out, because it always fades, and it would probably fade even if something were to happen.

In one case, a male family friend was kind of flirtatious with me and I thought it was harmless and was slightly flirtatious back in a kind of safe, lighthearted way. Then I found out that he was actually an unfaithful twat to his wife. I was horrified because a bit of harmless everyday flirting is not the same thing as realising someone is actually on the pull and would take it further - I shut it right down because I had NO intention of encouraging him. But, if I didn't have the experience I have and didn't see it the way I do, it could easily have escalated. I think those kinds of "options" are like slippery slopes that you may need to actively avoid.

I think outofcontrol2014 is spot on but I think a lot of what she is talking about is done out of habit.

I think some people have internalised old fashioned notions of "chaperoning" - which used to be done formally but now we do it informally. I think it is entirely a good thing by the way, I don't mean "old fashioned" in a perjorative sense. I know men whom I would never go to the pub with without their wives. Not because I fancy them, but because of how they are. I am sure there are lots of men in relationships who do exactly the same, with certain women, not making a song and dance about it, not drawing attention to it, not even thinking about it over-much, just deflecting the invitation by saying something like "good idea, I will phone x and see when (s)he can join us". I have seen people, quite drunk people, at work dos, make quite subtle arrangements to make sure they are not left alone with so and so, or rescuing their friends from being left alone with so and so. If you don't play by these rules, if you think you don't need to, or if you know you don't want to, you are leaving a certain door open. You don't have to walk through it. But you didn't make the effort to get up and close it, as many of us do. Maybe one day you will wish you had? or not. I don't know.

On the other hand - I totally believe Joan, I can't believe the way some men behave. Quite often when someone (someone new, who doesn't know you very well) comes on to you, you put it aside so neatly and quickly you can't quite believe it has happened, and then you find out sometime later they are now having an affair with someone else. People who want to have an affair will find someone to have one with, even if they have to go through 19 refusals to get to the no. 20 who will.

Joan- I'm picturing you as one of the old women from Harry Enfield, rubbin your knees lasciviously and shouting "Young man! At your age. At my age."

YY to personal boundaries. You need to be self aware though and not feel guilty if occasionally you feel attracted to someone else (it will happen) but just recognise it for what it is and choose to nip it in the bud.

Imo people who think romance is a fairytale and things like that are more likely to cheat as they interpret feelings for someone else as a big deal whereas it may be a natural consequence of too much proximity to someone you find interesting / funny / attractive

I could never cheat simply as I couldn't stay in the relationship with that guilt (& hence the boundaries are selfish too - to protect me and my relationship not just out of respect for partner) so I really don't understand how people men may be fine about cheating as long as they don't get caught??

SaucyJack - I'm sure that's hilarious but I have no idea what you are talking about. If you're saying I'm up for it with old guys... maybe...