AIBU' Men are as faithful as their options'.

[needyoumorethanwantyou]

The US comedian Chris Rock said this a few years ago. Obviously it was a glib comedic response to the Monica Lewinsky scandal and the response by his male political opponents about how disgusting it was yet, it was very unlikely anyone was 'trying to blow them' in political office and if someone was trying, they'd probably do the same.

Obviously everyone is an individual and women cheat too so I'm not just talking about men but AIBU to think there's some truth in this?.

I see so many threads on MN about long (decades in some cases) relationships when an infidelity comes out of the blue. I don't believe that all of these men/women were unhappy in their relationship beforehand. I think most of them were.....before they were presented with another option.

Shirley Glass even says in her book about infidelity that people need to have strict boundaries about interpersonal relations outside of their romantic relationship, particularly with work mates. But isn't that saying that if someone has chance to spend enough time with someone else and there's mutual attraction, an affair will often follow?.

It's happened to friends of mine who have been devastated by apparent complete changes of character from the partner they thought would never be unfaithful.

I also know of partners that aren't cheating but do try it on with other people and if they weren't knocked back, they would be cheating!.

And I totally disagree with this idea that OW/OM cause the problem, 'offering it on a plate' or whatever. I think it's that the cheat probably wasn't presented with an alternative to their spouse/partner before and when they were - they went for it.

I am a bit world-weary I admit!. But often when I hear 'oh, they'd never cheat' I do sometimes think...maybe that's just because they don't have the opportunity.

AIBU?.

Haha, he would tell you before he did anything.

I said that too at the start.

In fact, so did my friend and her husband before he cheated on her.

Come on, who hasn't said they would tell their partner before anything happened in conversations?

Really, people say it all the time and mean it at the time no doubt. Because someone says they will tell you they have feelings for someone else before cheating doesn't mean they actually will should it happen.

Easy to say when you aren't actually doing anything wrong.

And you know, I don't think my husband will ever cheat on me, but I will not be naive enough to think that he won't because he told me wouldn't and told me he would tell me first. I trust him more than anyone in the world and would be shocked if he ever cheated on me though.

Sorry if I sounded judgey, I certainly don't judge (all) people who cheat, I know for some it can be a stepping stone out of a bad relationship or a comfort when trapped. I simply meant that I know for myself I would never do it. Not going into my situation here, I can only assure you I have been tested.

I'm not saying cheaters are bad, simply that some people just won't do it no matter what. If people can't accept that maybe they should ask themselves why it is so important to them that everyone be the same?

I am not patronising you. I am having a conversation.

It's admirable that you went through all that for years and didn't cheat when you had the chance. I mean that. I was asking you questions. And I know I am not the only one to be in an abusive marriage.

I did, and that doesn't make me a bad immoral person.

My husband and I haven't ever discussed cheating (except when doing our vows I suppose), it's just assumed we won't.

But as someone said upthread, you never really know a person completely and a great many unexpected things could happen.

I don't imagine I'll cheat nor do I imagine he will but not many anticipate being a cheater. Some do, but they're the rather more unusual habitual cheaters.

Re-reading, it did come across as patronising. I apologise for that Saucy.

some people just won't do it no matter what
I guess that is true. However, I do think many would - and I think it might kind of prevent it more - if you want to prevent it - to accept how easy it is to do/fall into.

I recognize that I have the er propensity to cheat, so I do avoid certain situations, behaviors. I feel that some of those who would 'never cheat' don't take early preventative measures!

lifesentence... It's not important at all to me that everybody is the same because I know they are not. It seems terribly important to those who say that they have never, would never - and ditto their partners - are believed when they say this, almost as if they're trying to ward off the 'affair devil'. It's nonsense.

Affairs start for many different reasons. It's said - and I believe it to be true - that, 'when you're able to extricate yourself from a relationship, there's noting to extricate yourself from as it is innocent and you don't even recognise it as risky. By the time it is not, it's far too late to get yourself out of it'.

That's why I'm a bit dubious of people who say that their partners would tell them before something ever happened... what's to tell? What's the point? Blood on the clouds for not being involved in an affair... surely it would be madness to confess to 'nothing', unless you wanted to break up your marriage 'in advance'?

I believe everybody that says they would never cheat and that they believe their partner never would... and I hope that the situation never changes.

Agree with JohnFarley; understanding the risks and taking preventative measures is very sound advice and, I think, the best way of avoiding affairs in the first place. Fingers in ears has never been a good strategy.

DP brought up the subject of cheating quite early in our relationship. He definitely believes you are less likely to cheat if you acknowledge you COULD be in a position where you want to, and think about how you would deal with it. Rather than just thinking you'd never do it andand then ultimately being caught off guard.

Interesting points up thread about difference between a 'one off' and a sustained affair. Personally I can imagine being weak and giving in to a momentary temptation, but I cannot imagine myself actually conducting a full-blown affair. I am pretty sure I would never be able to live with myself doing the latter. Though of course you never know anything 100%.

Yeah, knowing it can happen to anyone does protect you more I believe.

I find this a bit depressing. It suggests there is no such thing as deep, true love.

I'm not as objectively attractive as say Angelina Jolie but my dh loves me, stretch marks and all. If she offered him amazing sex with a guarantee I wouldn't find out, I absolutely trust he wouldn't.

Why?

Because he has morals. He couldn't look me in the eye and lie for the rest of our marriage. For what? A bit of sex.

It suggests men are shallow. It's sexist.

LyingWitch: "It seems terribly important to those who say that they have never, would never - and ditto their partners - are believed when they say this, almost as if they're trying to ward off the 'affair devil'."

Yes I can see that, and sorry if I come across that way. I can only speak for myself and say that my marriage has been so thoroughly tested that I am sure about myself. Maybe I will be proved wrong, but at this stage it seems so unlikely as to be negligible. But I don't mind if others don't believe me. :)

I don't speak for anyone else though, including my dh. But I do believe that we are not all only "as faithful as our options" as many people clearly have the opportunity yet choose not to cheat. That is not quite the same as what you seem to be saying - that we would all cheat given a specific set of fidelity-destroying circumstances. I disagree with that, but my disagreement with the thread title is much more vehement.

YANBU.

In my line of work I meet a lot of men who are cheating. Or who want to cheat. And their poor wives and girlfriends who either no nothing about it or simply don't care. To be honest, it's really putting me off men altogether. It's certainly giving me the impression that if it's offered, and a man thinks he can probably get away with it, then he will.

*know

lifesentence... I completely understand what you meant and I hope that your faith will be completely justified. There are many people who never, ever cheat their life long. I believe you.

I also disagree with the statement that 'we would all cheat given circumstance and opportunity'. Some people would not do so.

I was interested in Riverboat's post that if she were to be unfaithful (paraphrasing here), that she would more likely have a one night stand as that would be 'lesser' somehow. For me, I think I would probably fall in love with the OM and have an affair as to be unfaithful is such a big thing for me that nothing short of love would do it. I would probably be weeping and wailing in the background at his funeral and wear black forevermore.

It's funny how people with a common default of 'faithful' can still look at this differently.

Yanbu. To a degree.

I think some people are intrinsically more likely than others to cheat. But that isn't the whole picture. Opportunity and environment, including the behaviour of peers plays a big part imho.

My mum and dad met at 12, married at 18, 3dc, apparently very happy.
Or so I thought, 7 years ago at the age of 50, my dad left my mum for someone he went to primary school with, they're still together and are getting married.
It has tore our entire family apart:(

I remember my younger db around the age of 14 saying that he was worried about our parents divorcing as it was happening to lots of his school friends and I said to him that we had more chance of winning the lottery than that happening.
How wrong was I?

lifesentence

Totally agree and feel exactly the same.
likewise, I'm not bothered if people don't believe it.

LyingWitch
I do think it is important to say these things because in a discussion like this I think it aides understanding and is a valid take on a type of relationship and the people within it.
I don't worry about the "affair devil* That doesn't mean I'm smug, there are plenty of other things to concern yourself about in any partnership.

morethanpotatoprints... Yes absolutely, it is important to talk about this and get understanding. I don't worry about the 'affair devil' either, I've been on both 'sides' and feel very much that 'what will be, will be', but I will do my best to ensure that I'm protected - and my family is protected - to minimise any impact should it happen.

foreverton... I'm very sorry, that sounds rough. I bet your dad didn't make the decision to leave lightly though. He would have known that it would decimate the family existence as you know it. I know that some men feel that they've perhaps 'done their time' and it's time for their own wants to be fulfilled. Always comes at a cost, no matter what.

Ime when a man (or, less commonly, a woman) leaves a marriage/ family for an extramarital relationship they use a number of psychological techniques to aid their emotional separation to minimise the trauma and guilt.
So it is sadly not uncommon to see someone shutting their eyes to the harsh reality of the pain they are causing in order to enable themselves to pursue their sexual fulfilment.

Lying - yes, I can see that side of things too. I am thinking more that I can imagine being in a situation where I felt a really strong attraction to somebody and didn't find the strength to pull back from the magnetism in that moment. Whereas if I was actually conducting an affair, I think I would have to be consciously making way more bad and hurtful choices than just being too weak to resist one moment, ifswim.

But really, if DP told me he had had a ONS versus he had been having an affair, I don't know that I'd feel much different in either case, in terms of levels of hurt. Hard to imagine though, as I am thinking purely hypothetically so don't really know.

In the last sixteen months:

1. A married man said he was so serious about me he'd leave his wife to be with me. We'd never even been on a date. Never so much as held hands. [That put me into psychological trauma and caused a complete mental breakdown and I lost my job]
2. Another married man was keen to 'explore my [sexual] boundaries'
3. A third married man 'invited me in' when his wife and children were away - his intention was not just to have a cup of tea and a chat
4. A fourth married man, ostensibly very nice and respectable, let me know that he was interested, despite our usual topics of conversation being his children, his wife, his in-laws...

I am the least-likely woman on earth to have men making advances. I don't look for it, dress for it, and as far as I knew, I didn't encourage it.
More recently, I saw an apparently very devout Muslim man I know vaguely out with his mistress. If he is unfaithful, everyone is.

Whilst I'd love to believe that there are some men who are wholeheartedly, determinedly faithful, I think that anyone who trusts a man not to cheat is likely to be disappointed.

Lyingwitch, thank you:)
No I'm sure it wasn't an easy decision but he has told me bits and bobs that suggest the marriage wasn't everything it seemed.

My dad is lucky, we've all managed to maintain a relationship with him of sorts though things will never be the same again.

I cancelled my wedding as my mum said she would not go if my dad gave me away, we lost money and have been engaged for years.
It's horrible.

Ultimately though, I would rather my dad( and mum ) are happy but it has come at a huge price.
Nobody is beyond cheating , I would have bet my life on my dad being faithful.

In my experience people don't cheat because they're necessarily unhappy in their marriages. Sometimes the Other reflects a different version of themselves, younger , exciting, more powerful etc.
My wise friend said that an affair stabilises a bad marriage but wrecks a good one. A friend of mine had a little thing which he could have continued but he ended it because he couldn't deal with the betrayal despite the opportunity. Maybe he wasn't that into her. Or maybe his moral compass got in the way. [shrug]

foreverton... I can hear how sad you are in your posts. I really am very sorry.

I was kind of thinking that RealAmanda's point about sexual gratification was probably bang on BUT you can, if you have a mind to, have a dalliance, even a long term dalliance, and keep it quiet to protect your family rather than making such a drastic, life-changing decision that impacts your own children.

It's true that you can never see what a marriage is like unless you were on the inside of it. I imagine that after such a long marriage, your dad hasn't told you everything out of loyalty to your mum (sounds funny, I know). This wouldn't have been a rash decision and I imagine he's deeply sorry that you've now cancelled your own wedding because of the 'giving away' bit. Your mum is obviously very upset but quite honestly, a one time ceremony that means so much to your child getting married should have trumped any discomfort for the day.

I hope that your arrangements can be put back on track when things are less 'fresh' and that your parents can put you first for that one day.