High earning partner leaving the country and family.

[finnmum]

Hi all, so sorry this is long but I am desperate for your wisdom on the issue of separation from the partner. Recently separated, still good friends and wanting to do everything right for our two children aged 6 and 9. Last three years my partner was working in another town or even country and eventually he decided to separate for good. He is now living in an European country and has a new girlfriend which I am supportive of as I want him to be happy. He earns almost 600 pounds a day and in his field is expected to continue to earn that.

We were together for 15 years, I was there at the uni when he went to his first job interview and have followed his career first in Europe and the last ten years I have been a stay at home mum in London. I have a degree as we met at the uni and I did an MBA just before I fell pregnant with our first child and haven’t worked since other than doing volunteer work now that the children are at school.

It was always a joint decision for me to stay at home as my ex-partner’s work demanded that he was always flexible, ready to jump on board to a new project which might have been in a different region. I loved raising the children and taking care of our pets and the home. My ex-partner has never attended parent teacher meetings, helped with homework, taught the children a single life skill, never talked about their feelings or cooked dinner.

During the last years it has been very hard for me to keep the daddy alive in every day life with the children, talking about him and making sure we can catch him so the children can see him. Being happy-go-lucky kind of a person he could go for days without talking to the children however he loves them very much and when around is great with them.

Now comes my question.. a couple of months after leaving the country my ex-partner is saying he legally only needs to pay us the government minimum for child maintenance and I should get to work to “fend off myself”. As I am trying to come to terms with the loss and trying to keep everything together this sounds horrible. I attended the job centre and was literally laughed at with too many qualifications and not enough experience. I am willing to take a low paid job however the fact is that after 15 years of supporting him my ex-partner’s view on my input is very hurtful. I know legally he doesn’t have much obligations however how would other people morally see this?

I have downsized in every way I can and am happy to do so, but I am in London in a rented house with no assets and with two children and four pets and things can’t happen overnight. I know that he is a good man deep down, it is just that he has never valued the work of a stay-at-home parent as he prides his birth family as being professional parents as he was raised by nannies when his mum returned to work after four months. He even said to me to send the kids to him he can take care of them As everything has always been done for him he cannot imagine the work it takes and morally he does not see any obligation to support us much further. I have been taken to hospital with exhaustion twice in a few months and my blood pressure is alarmingly high. The children continue to be happy as for them it has always been only me in everyday life and I still try my best to shelter them from my feelings. I know somehow we will be ok, but am I the only one to whom my ex-partner’s view is shocking? Thank you for reading this x

If you aren't married then he is correct, he is only legally obliged to pay you the minimum to support the children. You are expected to support yourself. I am not sure whether he can still be forced to pay when he is outside the UK, I "think" it depends on the country he is in.

I'm not saying that's right btw, just the way it is.

If you are married things do not have to be in joint names, marital assets are marital assets no matter in whose name they are held

Well he's right to a certain degree.
You do now need to get out there and get a job to help support you and your children.
Unfortunately these 'men' are absolute shits when it really comes down to it.
I've had to do everything all on my own for 5 years. Not had a penny from my fuckwit ex.
Calculating from UK, he should be giving you around 1600 per month.
How much is he currently paying.

First step is to get to CAB and find out what benefits you are entitled to and get them sorted out fast.
Then start looking at a career and what you would like to do.
Then get to as many employment agencies as you can and register to get a job. Even temping to start with.

I'm sorry you find yourself in this situation and I'm sorry your ex is turning out to be a total cunt.
But it's up to you now to get it all together and support everything from your side.

It alls spends if you are married.

It sounds to me as if you are trying to bend over backwards to be fair and generous.

Whilst he is just looking after himself.

Despite the happy-go-lucky-ness, the smiles, and the "being friends" this guy is screwing you over.

I'd fight back.

With a smile and no rudeness, but I'd bloody fight for what I deserve.

You are too accommodation, time to get to the CAB, get to a solicitor, and be a bit less accommodating to the selfish bastard that, really, he is.

Are you claiming all you can in terms of benefits?

While some may view your ex partner as being morally wrong, the fact of the matter is, you need to do everything you can to get back in the workforce.

What's your volunteering experience related to? Can you not look for a job in that field. Speak to whoever you volunteer for and ask if they have any suggestions / contacts.

Do you have reasonable admin / computer skills? If so, register with as many temp agencies as you can find. They are always looking for office workers, which can be a good "foot in the door" to many large companies.

He's not a good man he's trying to give you the absolute minimum even though he's a high earner knowing that you can't afford to peruse him and that he's abroad at the moment meaning its fairly difficult to enforce a judgement anyway.

Why are you "still good friends?"

He sounds an utter arsehole.

You are too accommodation, time to get to the CAB, get to a solicitor, and be a bit less accommodating to the selfish bastard that, really, he is.

There's no point. They weren't married. They have no assets.

All he can be forced to pay is the CSA minimum which he is doing.

Also be aware that as he is in another country and as a day rate is mentioned, it also appears he is some kind of contractor (self employed), so it may be easy for him to even avoid paying this, so bear this in mind for talking about solicitors.

A lot depends on which country he is in. Is he in an EU country? If so then that country is legally obliged to uphold a UK court order for maintenance. You need to get specialist legal advice about getting and enforcing a court order.

ah, just saw, not married.

Have you got your own bank account he cannot touch?

Is there still a joint account with any money? Anything valuable in the house? Time to squirrel away what you can.

If he thinks nothing of you, and your housewifely/SHM status, at least try to meet up with a mediator and persuade him that he owes his children more than the minimum. Does he want his children to grow up in poverty whilst he rakes in £600 a day?

You may need a sollicitor or someone to speak up for you during this meeting, as you sound much too nice a person to fight this fight yourself.

Where are your family, you could use support with childcare if you are going to work fulltime, also property could be cheaper.

Sorry, I misread your original post and thought he wasn't paying the CSA minimum. It might be good back up to have a court order in case he decides to stop, but other than that you don't have many other options. Are your family in London? You would find it easier to live on that amount in other areas of the country, though possibly harder to find a job.

OP I urge you to go and see a solicitor about all this as you've got yourself into an extremely precarious position. You're unmarried, separated and your ex has gone to live in another country, yet you continue to be financially dependent on him. He, OTOH, has no obligation to support you. All this talk of what is morally right or wrong is irrelevant and will not pay your bills. I suggest you get some proper legal advice immediately and stop living in cloud cuckoo land. Your ex has moved on, both to another country and another partner, and you cannot rely on him to support you any longer. Whether you like to pick your kids up from school and whether this is nice for them is not relevant - please wise up to the situation you are in.

Where are your family, you could use support with childcare if you are going to work fulltime, also property could be cheaper.

Good point. Do you have family outside of London? If so could you relocate? It would offer cheaper rents and assistance with childcare / support in general.

Usually they don't married because the higher earner (which is often the woman these days) does not want their earnings and assets given to their live in partner on a separation. Women who give up work in these cases and agree to move in without anything being in joint names usually know exactly what is happening - that they will be kept until their partner changes his or her mind.

The reason they won't have bought a house is because her ex partner clearly needed to be flexible with work (if you read the original post).

Sounds like a contractor to me, I know that life well

Sounds like contractor to me too. Which unfortunately also means would class as self employed and will probably have lots of expenses he can deduct from his income as justifiable business expenses. Depending on the country he is set up to be taxed in he could have his income judged as very low. Morally yes he is responsible for the dc too however enforcing that is a different matter.

Oh you poor thing.

First of all, deep breath. This is hugely traumatic, as your relationship is entering a new phase. In the process, all kinds of things from the past are coming up that are hurtful.

Second of all, your first job is to look after yourself. If you're not OK, you can't be a good parent or see your way forward through this. Your health really matters - you may find it helpful to book a double appointment with your GP and have a full checkup, in which you discuss your health problems like the high blood pressure, the exhaustion, the low mood. It might be useful if you can get on the waiting list for counselling in your area. Having someone with whom you can talk things through can work wonders. A daily walk, a CD of mindfulness - these things can really help. Getting friends and family onside as far as is possible can also be a huge relief.

Thirdly, find out what your position really is. You may have rights that you don't know about. Sit down one evening with a mug of hot chocolate and have a close look at your finances - make a spreadsheet of your outgoings and incomings so you know exactly where you stand. Book an appointment at the Citizens' Advice Bureau and find out exactly what you're entitled to. You may find that you need legal help - in which case, get in contact with uni law schools and look at their pro bono service.

Fourthly, (and this one is really tough and may feel like an unrealistic burden before you've sorted 1-3 above) - try to think of this as a fresh, new start. (This DOES NOT mean you have to feel great about what your partner has done! But recognise that even in bad situations there can be opportunities). You may be confined in your job opportunities right now, but maybe you also qualify for help with tuition to do a course to open new paths before you. As someone said upthread, there really is no reason you couldn't be outearning your partner in a few years' time - AND enjoying yourself as you do it!

I really do wish you all the luck in the world. I think your DP has acted shamefully and is deserving of the very worst that has been said of him on this thread, and some.

Great advice on here already, OP. Just want to give you and say I wish you all the best.

You sound lovely OP, you really do, but he's taken advantage of the situation. He's walking all over you: financially, emotionally and domestically. He's doing the minimum and using the kids as toys when he wants to play Disney dad. I really hope writing it all down has opened your eyes to this. The penny will drop with your kids as they get older too.

But the good news is you have a really good set of qualifications to start from so the only way is up! (cue 'sisters are doin'It for themselves a la Aretha and Lennox!). So all you are lacking is experience. How old are you? There are ways of breaking into a new field, it might just take a little time. A really good friend of mine was in your shoes, he applied for a job knowing he didn't have a chance because he had no experience. At the interview when they asked why he should get the job he said he was willing to do three months for free to gain the experience and prove himself. He suggested they take him on and their chosen candidate with nothing to lose. All he asked was a reference at the end of the three months. They agreed and it turned out they were so impressed with him that after the three months they offered him a job! He's never looked back and is earning a fortune now (more than £600 per day!).

Rent 'working girl' (Melanie Griffiths) get some power suits and get out there and kick arse!!!

I wonder how ex would react if you calmly said the kids would need to go and live with him as childcare costs will be exorbitant when you're working and you can't afford not to work. I bet he'd soon up the amount he's offering rather than interrupt his new life! Not that You'd actually do that of course, but I'd love to know.

How much have you contributed to clearing debts that are just his - ie the gambling on the stock market - as opposed to money spent on home, bills, food etc?

Any chance of recouping anything towards that - or at least getting a charge on something he owns?

It depends on which country he's moved to. A lot of them (Ireland, the US etc) have signed up for what's called a REMO (reciprocally enforced maintenance order). You can apply to the courts here, they will calculate how much maintenance he has to pay -which doesn't need to be the same as the CSA would award- then you have to apply via the Official Solicitor for this to be enforced in the country where he lives. They can deduct it from his earnings/put a charge on his house etc if he doesn't pay.

www.gov.uk/remo-unit-helpline You collect the forms from your local county court and there's no charge for using this. If his initial maintenance was calculated by the CSA when he was in the UK I'm sorry to say it's no longer valid. They don't have jurisdiction outside the UK so won't help to recalculate it. If you call them to say he's not in the UK they will close the file.

With regards to supporting a relationship, you can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink. If he's not interested there's not a great deal you can do. He can skype/email/send letters/visit, but he has to do this.

I was studying for a degree when ds's father left the UK and I carried on. I've had crappy jobs since but I now have one I love, so there are some out there. If you can't find one, then set something up yourself. Just because he's not with you, it doesn't mean you need to stop living.

You've asked for our views on the morality of him "only" paying you 20% of his earnings. I think, for me, it mostly depends on to what extent it really was a joint decision for you to stay at home - you say it was but then you also say that your ex holds up his parents' model as an ideal, with both his mother and father working full-time. Did he really actively want you to stay at home? And, if he did, did he want that to continue indefinitely or did he assume that you would get a job once the kids started school?

To be honest, I don't think it is particularly reasonable to expect him to support you to be a SAHM forever so in a way this has just accelerated the inevitable.

On the practical side of things, presumably (?) you didn't intend never to work again so you must have some idea of what it is that you would like to do employment wise? I would do some proper thinking about that and investigating options. And, then, I'd be inclined to talk to your ex and explain that you agree with him that you should get a job but that it won't happen overnight, outline your plan for getting work and ask him if he will continue to cover the rent/bills until you secure a job. If he sees you making a genuine effort to start a career, he may well be willing to do that.

I slightly wonder whether he is saying this partly because otherwise he fears that you will never get a job and he will end up supporting you for the rest of his life (which, I'm sorry, I don't think would be reasonable.)

If not married its a huge risk to take so you could look at it with the view that you were very lucky to have ten years of not working. Now it's time to return to the workplace as you need to be earning.

Even if married, unless a huge earner spousal maintainable is rare and depends on many factors. It doesn't actually sound from your post that you ever worked so didn't give up a career anyway so a judge may not have awarded it anyway.