To think you should hold your child's hand.

[Pistone]

When I'm out and about I constantly see mothers with very little children trailing behind. Mother often on mobile or chatting to friend walking beside her. The dangers to the child are horrendous, even crossing the road the child is free to do whatever. What is wrong with these women. Keep hold of your child FFS.

Yanbu.

I see this all the time and it makes me feel sick.

I hit a twelve year old girl once. I was going at 20mph and she was ok but it was horrendous and it still haunts me.

A four year old does not have complete road sense. Of course they haven't. Teenagers and even adults can have a lapse of concentration, why would you think a small child wouldn't?

It's fucking ridiculous. Hold your children's hands you lazy fuckers.

I don't really think the consequences of what might happen if they stepped into the road stops them doing it as even 15, 16 year olds have been knocked down on the way to school. They know that the consequences can be fatal but lack of concentration, distractions etc can be fatal but they still do it. Obviously you wouldn't be holding their hands but in the case of little children who can so easily be distracted, prevention by either holding hands or using reins might be the only answer. IMO anyway.

I am happy to accept someone saying their 4 year old is streetwise because mine all were at that age

That is such a terrifying statement for someone to make. Ds2 is 4. He still thinks his teachers live at school and that spider man is real.

Calling any 4 year old 'street wise' is just naiive and stupid to be frank.

it makes my skin crawl. I had to deal with a claim once where a 2 year old stepped off a pavement in central london. Luckily he bounced off the side of a passing taxi and landed back on the pavement with only a broken arm. His mother wasnt holding his hand because they were full of shopping.

I live in Germany and six year old children get trams to school by themselves. My friend's five year old does (with her big brother, and she's been using that route with a parent for two years). People would think you ridiculously overprotective for insisting on holding a (NT) eight year old's hand. If anything the roads are more dangerous here - a huge metal tram cannot stop quickly and often the drivers are high up and wouldn't see a small child who ran out suddenly.

We lived in England when he was younger, but I didn't have a car so he had to learn road sense and safety at a very early age. I took a pushchair pretty much everywhere even after he started walking reliably and the rule was that if he couldn't walk sensibly we held hands, if he wouldn't hold hands he went into the pushchair. I stopped using the pushchair when he started nursery at 3 because by then he was reliably stopping at roads. He has never once ever run out into a road and is now 6. I don't hold his hand now unless he's tired and wants to hold mine, or if we're crossing a tricky or particularly busy road. He's been using a scooter in the street since about 4 and always knew the rule was that he had to stay in sight, must stop at corners and road crossings and he has to get off the scooter and walk across the road. If he did not follow this then he was not allowed to ride the scooter. We were very lucky to live around very quiet streets, so he got a lot of practice of the rules without any real danger, and we talk regularly about not going on the road even if your balloon/ball/toy/teddy/animal/anything at all goes on the road, he has to stop and ask an adult to get it for him and understand that it might not always be possible for them to do that. He does this - he's been upset about it, yes, especially when he lost a conker and the conker immediately got squashed by a car! But he didn't for a second try to go after it, and he was quite nervous about me trying to get one back as well when he saw a car coming from far down the road.

I did try reins but he used to sit down in the middle of the street randomly which was a pain in the arse. There were a couple of times when he was a toddler that he would hold hands to cross the road but then suddenly go limp in the middle of it and I ended up picking him up by his wrist (ouch!!) because I had a buggy in the other hand! Anyway they all go through phases but if you're consistent about the rules then they get the message in the end. I don't think you can say that there's a particular age that children are safe to walk unconstrained, cross roads etc, it's all down to the individual child and the parent's judgement. I would always say err on the side of caution

It is harder for children to judge speed and distance as they are lower down but if you teach them to only use proper crossings and to be extremely careful where they can't find crossings (which should only be on quiet roads anyway) then there's not really any reason to worry about that.

Yanbu. But I was blessed with bolters so I'm used to reins and hand holding.

DS is almost 8 and he's been known to step out without looking , so he often gets his hand held. I have lots of problems with 6yo DD and she's close to going on a wrist strap .

If my toddler won't hold my hand I pick him up (which he doesn't like one bit) and just say hold my hand or I'll pick you up, sometimes it only takes once others I have to repeat it 1000000000000 billion times

I think that small children are perhaps even more aware, actually. Small children if you've taught them road safety right are terrified of the idea of being run over, adults and teenagers get complacent about it because we cross roads 100 times a day and nothing bad ever happens.

Yes they are easily distracted but the cars also look much bigger and louder to them. And they don't need to be able to judge the speed and distance effectively to stick to the rule "ALWAYS stop at the edge and wait for mummy" (or a little older) "Always look for a light crossing and wait for the green man".

I don't think DS would run onto the road, but he is 3, and therefore I do not trust that he knows what he is doing!

We now have a strict rule that if he does not stop the second I shout stop, he doesn't get his dinosaur train before bed! That has finally worked (he liked to stop right at the edge of the road, I insisted on 3 steps away, he likes to run while looking behind him, so I'm never sure if he is going to trip...)

I often feel like I am the only mum screaming stop at my child!

YANBU
DS (2) is prone to pulling away from my hand so I use reins/ little life backpack a lot.

I live in the busiest part of a big city & see this all the time. Worst are those who cross at the red man & shout at Little Johnny to outrun an oncoming bus.

You can teach your children everything about street sense and road sense. But if you are letting them walk without holding your hand at the age of 3/4 you are bloody bonkers.

The mother of the girl I hit couldn't believe that she had just stepped out in to the road. She had been walking to school by herself since she was six.

And you may not have experienced your small child being hit by a car. But if they haven't stepped out on the road then that is down to sheer bloody luck that they haven't had a momentary lapse of concentration for some reason.

Not because of a parents superior road sense teaching skills

YANBU. I see it all the time and it makes me cringe.

Every child can have a moment where they completely forget everything they've been taught with regards to road sense. All it takes is for something to catch their eye.

DD is nearly five and she is only aloud to run ahead if the area is enclosed.

A woman where I used to work annoyed me, her child came sobbing in the shop metres behind her, she had walked off, too busy chatting not even realising her toddler was getting further behind. My then colleague pointed the little one to her mum who proceeded to tell her off, they left and the stupid woman still didn't keep her eye on her daughter. It still infuriates me now, can you tell?

My son is 4, I hold his hand or he holds onto the side of the pushchair at all times. He hasn't got a clue!

YANBU it's really dangerous near roads. It's also inconsiderate of other pedestrians like when I was pregnant and a small child came barrelling into me with his head at bump height and his parents dawdling along looking in shop windows. A friend of mine uses a wheelchair and he once ended up with a speeding child landing head first in his lap as they charged around the local shops unsupervised. Thank goodness it was an electric wheelchair he was driving and not a car!

YANBU. I never noticed before having children, but seem to see this all the time now. There is no way I would give my two year old that level of independence! He holds my hand or the side of the buggy (with the reins secretly slipped over the handle incase he does decide to let go) or he has to sit in it. All it takes is a split second. Luckily he's very good and likes to hold onto his baby brother's hand and walk alongside the tripper. At the park or other safe places he walks with me or in front.

What bothers me is the number of people I see engrossed in their mobile phones & clearly not watching where they are going, & more to the point, where their small children are going

No matter how well-behaved, "streetwise", or whatever, children are impulsive & traffic is unpredictable.

Children cannot accurately judge traffic speed till they are 14 on average

I think there is alot of difference between kids who have to get to/from school in cars and kids who every day for their whole life have traipsed up and down main roads and HAD to learn the rules.I had 3 kids within 3.5 years.I did not have enough hands to hold them all.When youngest was in buggy, the others held either side of that when the path was wide enough and there was no-one coming other way. I am an occupational therapist by training and spend alot of time doing 'risk assessment' . I try to give my kids as much independence as I can within acceptable risk levels.I love that kids in Germany get a tram to school from a young age.Those kids are going to be so much safer and aware than the ones wrapped up in cotton wool until they are at university. Of course you hold the hand of a small child who you know has no road sense but you have to start to trust them at some stage and they will all be different.

That must have been a really distressing incident for everyone involved, Sliced. I'm sorry you experienced that. But I wouldn't hold a 12 year old's hand to cross the road and I don't think that would have prevented that accident.

A 2 year old, absolute, you need to know they are contained. But you can't draw a single line in the sand and say "After X age, all/no children are safe to manage roads alone." They are all different. Some parents are negligent. But not every parent who has a different idea about when it's safe to let (their own, different) child walk near roads than you is negligent.

I used reins on DS1 until I had to use crutches for SPD around the time he turned two.I tried the reins with them, but the swing of the crutches was wrong, and we got in a mess and he kept falling over, and I struggled to pick him up. I couldn't hold hands. The posture of pushing the buggy was agony. It was walk free range or months of house arrest. He's a naturally cautious child, responds to instructions, and we live in a quiet area with wide grass verges between the pavement and roads. By the time my mobility resumed, it seemed unnecessary to try to retrain him back to reins. He'll hold the buggy when necessary in busier places, or for crossing roads. He's not fool proof, no one is, but he's considerably better than my 12 year old pupil that stepped out in front of a car forcing it to an emergency stop and wondered why the driver blasted his horn, while we were on field work. His friend grabbed for him, and his friends were startled, but the boy himself didn't grasp what the issue was, whereas my now 3 year old is cautious about walking past driveways. I suspect DS2 will be less cautious, and I will respond accordingly to his needs.

It's not about an absolute age, it's about the individual child, and the risks of their location.

vdbfamily The girl I hit was 12.

She lived on a very busy main road, and her distraught mother told me she had been walking to and from school by herself since the age of six. She also played out very often so certainly was not wrapped up in cotton wool.

BUT she still stepped out in to the road. She had completely misjudged the situation and if I had been going faster she would probably have been dead.

ANY child can forget themselves, and all it takes is a second.

You cannot continue to hold their hands until they have the awareness to cross a road, they need to be independent on a road long before that time - at the very least schools will be taking them out with more adults than children long before. So at some age you have to trust them and give them the independence, like everything it's a risk - but it's a risk you have to take, controlling them is often impossible and generally counterproductive as it doesn't teach anything.

Children learn to not go into roads alone long before they are capable of crossing roads safely, just like they learn not to jump off things too high, or touch hot objects or so many other dangers. YABU.

You don't need to judge traffic speed to cross at a zebra or pelican crossing! Neither do you need to judge speed to cross a totally empty road. Or wait for a parent at the side of the road. Or understand that you must never step into a road, ever, without an adult with you. The amount of busy roads without a proper crossing are vanishingly small.

Some people on here have such a deluded idea about the dangers of the world I really wonder how they manage to leave their own houses sometimes.

I have also been told I can't possibly teach my child toad safety because I don't drive so I can't possibly know anything about stopping distances etc. (I lack a driving licence, I'm not stupid.)

No Bertie I wouldn't hold a twelve year olds hand either.

My point was that whether a child has road sense or not it can always happen. Having road sense and experience on busy roads wouldn't magically keep a child safe.

Very young children and traffic are so unpredictable. I just don't see how you could risk assess that.

It just makes my blood run cold seeing people say that a four year old can be trusted by a road.

I used to always have them walking on the inside of the pavement too. I saw a young couple the other day, he had hold of the child's hand but it was a very narrow pavement alongside a very busy road with a small kerb.There's always the chance of a car veering onto the pavement, just a natural instinct I suppose.