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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask my OH to sack this person right now

151 replies

whataloadofoldshit · 05/10/2014 12:07

I'm not being unreasonable, but if my DP doesn't sack this person today it's going to cause some massive issues.

Some background information... My DP owns quite a large roofing business and often goes to the jobs to make sure everything is going smoothly. This morning one of the guys couldn't make it so DP went along to give the other men a hand. I popped up there about 10ish to drop DP some lunch off and there was a new guy there, has done a couple of jobs for DP before, he's about 50, lots of experience etc. I had the kids with me and we were all exchanging pleasantries... Until this guy blurted out 'Look! There's a monkey!'. So my children turn around trying to spot the monkey. There wasn't a monkey, he was talking about a black man walking down the road. Obviously I assumed there were not people in the world that really thought like this or let alone said things like that in this world anymore. The children are none the wiser and I said nothing, just turned round again. I made a quick exit, after giving DP a very pissy look.

I am not happy. I'm not sure what DP thinks. I am going to ask him what the hell it was all about this evening, but am I being unreasonable in asking him to sack that racist piece of shit straight away tomorrow?

OP posts:
needyoumorethanwantyou · 07/10/2014 08:25

This is another one of those threads where the OP has seen/heard something unacceptable and comes on here 'raging' and asking about making complaints because they want everyone to say 'oh you're so right and doing the right thing' when they've actually done nothing but perhaps pass it to someone else to deal with.

If everyone who heard a racist/sexist/homophobic/disablist comment challenged it immediately it would start to happen much less frequently in my opinion.

LittlePeaPod · 07/10/2014 08:55

I think we have to give the Op some slack here. She did the right thing advising her DH to get rid of the guy. And yes she should have said how uncomfortable she felt to the guy at the time however to what extent that challenge should have gone is difficult to say. She was at her DH place or work as an external party. I would have expected her to say something if this had occurred outside his business.

The person that should have challenged the guy immediately should have been her DH. It's his business and his responsibilty to handle these types of situation/behaviour at his business. Had he handled the situation caused by one of his employees, the Op would not have had to say anything at all.

On that basis I really think the Op needs to be given some slack.

cricketpitch · 07/10/2014 09:02

Here we go again. Trial by overhearing. OP overheard someone say something not to her or about her and in a situation where she was with kids and just dropping something off. On that basis a man should lose his job - on the spot - and his wife and kids should be sick with worry about where the money for the rent is coming from. Thank goodness we have the law to deal with these things reasonably.

LittlePeaPod · 07/10/2014 09:11

It's not trail by hanging. The man said it in front of his boss, his bosses wife and kids. He was racist and should have considered the consequences of his racist "joke" on his wife and kids. His wife and kids are his responsibilty not his employers! In a work place environment the employer should deal with this. They have a responsibilty to the rest of their workforce not to have ignorant racists spouting that sort of BS.

I can assure you I would sack him if he worked for me.

LadyLuck10 · 07/10/2014 09:21

I would rather someone receive a warning than be sacked.

Hatespiders · 07/10/2014 09:45

I would have challenged the man myself the moment the words were out of his mouth. In no uncertain terms. I wouldn't have been able to restrain myself tbh! I'd probably have run up the ladder and clonked him on the nose.

My husband is black, but that's completely irrelevant.

As it was heard in public (about a man 'walking down the road') it's a racist remark made in public and legally an offence.
And to say it to some children!!!!! Weird as well as horrible.

It's astonishing there are still people today who would say such a thing. Has he been living in a cave for the past twenty years or what? Maybe he should go back there.

I too feel that most firms would sack the man immediately for gross misconduct.

ilovesooty · 07/10/2014 10:21

I don't care how good a tradesman is - if I contracted them to do a job and they made a comment like this I'd tell them to pack ya their tools immediately and go.
What a strange comment moanin

ilovesooty · 07/10/2014 10:31

I don't see why the OP 's partner has to tread so carefully with him. He doesn't have the employment rights an established employee would have. It looks as though he's prepared to overlook the racism until the job is finished to avoid not finishing on time.
Disappointing attitude I think - if I knew of a builder who did that I wouldn't use their services.

moaningminnie2 · 07/10/2014 12:57

'I live in the real world running a division in the UK for a global organisation. We have HR and separate Legal teams handling employment law for our business in the UK and UK employee rights. I can assure you Nomama under these circumstances any employee heard saying what this man said would be immediately dismissed under our gross misconduct policy. No questions asked.'
Peabody the man is not an employee.He is a business which the OPs husband has contracted to do a job.He is not in breach of that contract

Nomama · 07/10/2014 13:04

As Minnie said, the offensive pillock is not an employee, he is a sub contractor. And, regardless of what our own experiences, HR depts. etc may do, we don't know what the specifics of the contract are in this case.

So it is quite possible, if not wholly acceptable, that the correct legal action has been taken.

Any other conjecture is a bit pointless...

LittlePeaPod · 07/10/2014 13:54

Moaning. I was saying if anyone in our business was behaving in this way he would be sacked. This was mainly in reference to those that seem to think businesses wouldn't take this kind of behaviour seriously and sack someone for it.

With regards your point in terms on contractors or sub-contractors. Even if we had a sub contractor or contractor working as an external employee on a project for our business, we hold this people to the same standards as employees. Therefore on that basis I would expect an immediate termination of the contractor or sub-contractors agreement with us because they would be bringing our business and reputation into disrepute.

We will not and can not be seen to accept or overlook this type of bahaviour from anyone.

LittlePeaPod · 07/10/2014 14:01

In fact its easier to terminate contractor agreements than to sack employees.

ilovesooty · 07/10/2014 14:25

The 2010 Equality Act covers harassment by a third party. Small businesses are responsible for the behaviour of their contractors and this racist behaviour was in breach of that.

moaningminnie2 · 07/10/2014 16:07

'In fact its easier to terminate contractor agreements than to sack employees.'
can you elaborate on that please? How do you know the terms of the contract they made?

TrevaronGirl · 07/10/2014 16:09

It isn't as easy as some think to terminate a sub contract for a 'non relevant event'.

Bear in mind the OP's husband is running a small company and I very much doubt the terms of a contract between him and the roofer would be so comprehensive as to envisage this sort of situation. Probably that's why her OP chose to deal with the situation in the way he did.

KoalaDownUnder · 07/10/2014 16:31

Its not about when/how the OP's partner terminates the guy's contract (or tells him he won't be rehiring him again, whichever is applicable). Forget about that.

The point is that of course it is not illegal to tell someone not to use disgustingly racist language at work. Especially when they do it in front of you, and you're their boss!

LittlePeaPod · 07/10/2014 16:58

how do you know the terms of the contract they made?

I don't need to do this. If you have a contractor that is potentially behaving in a manor which would impact on your business and reputation then you have good reason to get rid.

LittlePeaPod · 07/10/2014 17:00

Moaning do you run a business or work in a position that would deal with issues such as these?

moaningminnie2 · 07/10/2014 17:18

peapod
Yes!
have you got any experience in the construction industry?

moaningminnie2 · 07/10/2014 17:21

If we never took on subbies who made racist or sexist comments, (not in front of customers obviously) we would never build anything

KoalaDownUnder · 07/10/2014 17:25

moaning, that doesn't mean nobody should say anything to them when the comments are made, though. That's how casual racism flourishes. I've worked in mining and in construction, and there is no way a boss would sit by and say nothing if someone called a black person a monkey in front of him. What sort of message does that send??

LittlePeaPod · 07/10/2014 17:26

We work with companies in most sectors. We are the largest organisation of its type globally. So in answer to your question, yes four the the largest construction companies in the country are managed by people in my team. We advise them on a number of issues and risk management including reputation risks is part if the service we provide. We also advise on how the deal with everything from sub contractors, contractors, JV etc. So actually I know what I am talking about.

I am surprised that someone in a position to understand this would think its not possible to terminate an agreement that was potentially impacting a businesses reputation..

TrevaronGirl · 08/10/2014 12:38

moaning I can see your point to an extent.

Some on here seem unable to appreciate the differences between how large building contractors operate and small local firms who have to work in a restricted market with a limited number of sub contractors, some of whom may actually be a good source of new work!

I know that's the case in this area, almost everyone knows everyone else.

As I mentioned before, it's possible that the OP's husband took the decision to deal with the matter away from site for very good reasons.

maninawomansworld · 08/10/2014 19:12

Summarily dismissing him may not be that easy (or indeed very fair).
Your DH does need to have a formal sit down chat , he could even call it a disciplinary as this chaps language could bring his company into disrepute if people heard it(especially if there were vehicles on site bearing his insignia).

If anyone working for me did something like this they would get a friendly warning begin with, then a final warning, then dismissal (unless either of the first two constituted gross misconduct in with case it could be straight to dismissal).

Numanoid · 09/10/2014 09:22

I don't think the OP should demand that an employee is sacked when it's her OH's business. I would be very Hmm if I found out I had been sacked on my manager's partner's advice, and would be more inclined to challenge and appeal it.

Obviously what the man said is unacceptable and quite shocking that someone would use that word to describe another person. I think that instead of sacking him, though, the OP's partner should talk to him and explain that a repeat incident will not be tolerated. An official warning, or whatever the equivalent would be.