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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To ask my OH to sack this person right now

151 replies

whataloadofoldshit · 05/10/2014 12:07

I'm not being unreasonable, but if my DP doesn't sack this person today it's going to cause some massive issues.

Some background information... My DP owns quite a large roofing business and often goes to the jobs to make sure everything is going smoothly. This morning one of the guys couldn't make it so DP went along to give the other men a hand. I popped up there about 10ish to drop DP some lunch off and there was a new guy there, has done a couple of jobs for DP before, he's about 50, lots of experience etc. I had the kids with me and we were all exchanging pleasantries... Until this guy blurted out 'Look! There's a monkey!'. So my children turn around trying to spot the monkey. There wasn't a monkey, he was talking about a black man walking down the road. Obviously I assumed there were not people in the world that really thought like this or let alone said things like that in this world anymore. The children are none the wiser and I said nothing, just turned round again. I made a quick exit, after giving DP a very pissy look.

I am not happy. I'm not sure what DP thinks. I am going to ask him what the hell it was all about this evening, but am I being unreasonable in asking him to sack that racist piece of shit straight away tomorrow?

OP posts:
ReallyTired · 05/10/2014 13:13

I feel that following employment law is vital when some is accused of misconduct. It is vital that an employer shows that thye have acted fairly. We can't pick and choose who has rights in the UK.

I feel that your partner and any directors need to consider their decision carefully and fairly. They need to have a displinary meeting with this employee to discuss his behaviour.

Following the law is not going soft on racism. It is called being fair.

PrettyPictures92 · 05/10/2014 13:18

Ugh disgusting man. Unfortunately unless he was being racist towards someone in the company I don't think it's a sack able offence :(

nancy75 · 05/10/2014 13:20

Most construction industry staff are self employed and contracted from job to job. If this is the case I would probably let him finish this job and then don't employ him again. If he is not going to be coming back to work for your husband after this job is finished I would say it would be best for your DH to keep quiet until work is complete and tell him at the end of the job he won't be used again and the reason why.

nancy75 · 05/10/2014 13:21

OP I think you did the right thing saying nothing at the time, It would have undermined your husband and potentially started a nasty argument n front of your children if you had pulled him up on it.

MrsCampbellBlack · 05/10/2014 13:32

Kay's said it all really though re. unfair dismissal - you have very few rights if you have been employed for less than 2 years.

If he could prove he'd been discriminated against - then he'd have a case. But as Kay said - would be interesting to see him defend himself at a tribunal based on the fact he was discriminated against for being a racist idiot.

FunkyBoldRibena · 05/10/2014 13:41

Unfortunately unless he was being racist towards someone in the company I don't think it's a sack able offence

Of course it is a sackable offence! It's just depending on the contract, as to the procedure that needs following.

LeftRightCentre · 05/10/2014 13:41

He got a whole crew to work on a Sunday? Impressive.

BoneyBackJefferson · 05/10/2014 13:55

"I'd love to see the employee trying to defend his behaviour at an employment tribunal!"

I can think of two ways of defending this.

But depending upon the contract he may not be able to sack him.

Original poster
whataloadofoldshit · 05/10/2014 14:27

Left, im not sure how to take your post. What are you implying? The customer was happy for the work to take place, my DP has work for people to take, they are happy to take it.

Not a whole crew, there were 4 of them there today including my DP.

OP posts:
waithorse · 05/10/2014 14:35

This is so shocking. What a hateful person. Angry

mutternutter · 05/10/2014 14:44

Disgusting and in front of kids too. Has this person never shown any other racist tendencies

HermioneWeasley · 05/10/2014 15:03

Outrageous comment and quite possibly a dismissable offence. Certainly if less than 2 years service I wouldn't hesitate

Whippet81 · 05/10/2014 15:16

It doesn't matter if the black man heard or not - you can be offended by comments not made towards yourself - for example I once complained about someone making jokes about gay men - I am neither but I found it to be offensive.

I think what your husband does depends on type of contact he has etc (sorry haven't read all way through you may have said) he certainly needs speaking to though.

To be honest I think you should have said something. I would have said something like 'I don't want to hear crap like that thank-you very much' and ushered children away whilst giving him daggers.

ilovesooty · 05/10/2014 15:23

I would hope his employer will dispense with his services without the OP having to raise the issue. I'm amazed that anyone is advocating "speaking to him" etc.

Topaz25 · 05/10/2014 15:28

I can see why OP didn't say anything at the time because the comment went over her children's heads and she didn't want to draw their attention to it and then have to explain it to them.

Topaz25 · 05/10/2014 15:29

Racism creates a hostile working environment, his colleagues may have been equally uncomfortable but unable to challenge him. It also brings the company into disrepute. Your DH should definitely challenge this behaviour, frankly I hope he realises that without needing you to tell him! I'm not an expert on employment law but if possible the employee should be fired because of his inappropriate and unprofessional behaviour.

Bulbasaur · 05/10/2014 15:31

I can't believe you just stood there and didn't say anything, considering you are so disgusted by it.

If I were with my kid, I wouldn't kick up a fuss in front of them because I wouldn't want them to understand the joke or associate monkeys with black people. Honestly, it's not a common saying here in the US, so the joke most likely would have gone over my head until I took everything into context.

Yes, he should be fired. Small businesses take a long time to build up clientele and establish reputability. You don't need some racist cunt ruining your OH's livelihood. It only takes one review to say "Work was good, but workers are racist" and it makes people not want to hire him.

He needs to get rid. I'm sure lewd and racist comments are grounds for dismissal. He'd have a hard time claiming wrongful dismissal over something like that.

pippinleaf · 05/10/2014 15:52

In my dad's company the men aren't allowed to make sexist comments to passing women (they're builders) and doing so is a sackable offence as it creates a very bad image of the company. Sexism, racism, homophobia etc all as bad and I should think sackable. However if there isn't a code of conduct made explicit then I think it would be unfair dismissal. I think a written warning may be more appropriate.

ilovesooty · 05/10/2014 16:05

Acas indicates:

Dismissal is normally fair if an employer can show that it is for one of the following reasons:

a reason related to an employee's conduct
a reason related to an employee's capability or qualifications for the job
because of a redundancy
because a statutory duty or restriction prohibited the employment being continued
some other substantial reason of a kind which justifies the dismissal.

I think the reason relating to conduct would apply in this case.

hamptoncourt · 05/10/2014 16:08

An employee cannot claim unfair dismissal unless they have been working somewhere for two years or more ( unless it is dismissal which is automatically unfair such as due to pregnancy)

It doesn't sound like this excuse for a man has been an employee for long and may not be an employee at all.

If he is self employed or on a zero hours contract then DH doesn't have to "sack him" he can just choose not to use him any more.

I am with OP on this, I would lose all respect for my DH if he continued to use someone like this, it would make me feel sick to think my family money was going into a racists pockets.

phantomnamechanger · 05/10/2014 16:15

maybe I am naïve but the term "monkey" as a form of abuse to a black person is so alien to me that I would not even have thought "OMG he's being racist", I would have assumed he was joking with the children in an "Oh look, there's a flying pig, haha fooled you" sort of way. Are you SURE the black man being there was not a pure coincidence?

If you are sure he was being racist then yes he deserves to be fired, it's your company's reputation at stake.

captainmummy · 05/10/2014 16:18

Absolutely horrendous. I certainly wouldn't want this person working on my roof.

I do recall our v lovely, v funny, v calm Legal rep at work telling us about a car park he was in recently; he had a lot of time left on the ticket so wound down the window to offer it to a guy waiting - who said 'I don't talk to you people!'

Legal guy said 'what - solictors?' (He's black Grin)

Other guy couldn;t get out of there fast enough - and didn't get the free ticket either. Pretty sure it is actually illegal to talk like that.

LittleBairn · 05/10/2014 16:20

Sure he could sack him today, can you afford for your DH to go bankrupt when he has to pay out to this guy?
There is legal displinary procedures in place for a reason.

LittleBairn · 05/10/2014 16:21

phsntom calling black people monkey is a well known racist slur.

phantomnamechanger · 05/10/2014 16:26

I know it is littlebairn, but it is so alien to me and just not in use round here, that it would not be my first thought. I would have thought of it in the same way as someone saying "look out there's an elephant behind you", as a joke.

However, OP was there and I was not and she knows what the mans tone and body language were conveying.