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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think £100k pa is NOT 'the squeezed middle'?

999 replies

ArsenicFaceCream · 05/10/2014 01:16

Link

The article is very confidently attributing the definition to Danny Dorling, but did he really name this figure?!

These women are fools.

OP posts:
rubyinthedust · 06/10/2014 17:43

And yep - both me and my husband being teachers is great during holidays. However we have no flexibility whatsoever during term time and nursery is likely to be a nightmare.

Polonium · 06/10/2014 17:47

An awful lot of primary school teachers manage to combine being a mum with having a full time job. In fact, I can't think of a more child-friendly job.

Greengrow · 06/10/2014 17:48

All this just proves I am right. If you aren't prepared to put in the effort and difficulties of two of you working full time ( we both worked full time for 20 years with 5 children and their father is a teacher) because it means some difficult years, having to race home to deal with end of nursery time or nanny or child minder has to go or you just can't cope because you like more of a relaxing time then you earn less. It's really simple. It might be you cannot be bothered to make the effort to both work full time but that's your choice and if that means you are financially worse off because once you've gone part time that chance to work full time again and rise to being a head teacher or whatever has gone then it directly flows from your choice.

People saying wish they had had me to advise them when they left Oxbridge - I could cycle to the Newcastle public library when I was 16 and 17 to borrow a book called what people earn and make a choice. Nothing stops anyone in this country these days doing that as the internet will tell you. I was ten when I drew myself a little graph of what people earned and what career might enable me to buy my own island,. Now it assumed you keep 100% of your pay and don't spend it and don't pay tax (I was only ten) but that graph clearly shows the differences income of careers like teachers, lawyers, librarians and the like.

A lot of people just think things are impossible. I have as a single mother of 5 had to sort childcare from 4.30amn to 9am school time when I have an early business flight. These things aren't easy. Even now I have teenagers - last week I was giving a whole day course and my older son had to go to parents' evening for the boys but we all know what good things flow from my career - been emailing all 5 children about dates for possibly Barbados summer holiday 2015 and skiing December 2015. That all flows from my exam results at school, career choices and the 30 years of work without maternity leaves and no part time or flexi time and my feminism - that women and their earnings and careers can come first and belief that that benefits not damages children.

VinoTime · 06/10/2014 17:49

I had a conversation with my sister not so long ago about this. Between her and her partner, they earn in excess of £85K a year. House prices are soaring where they live, but they're a financially sensible couple who have paid off their student debts, saved up while renting in London, got together a decent house deposit and eventually bought a modest 3 bed semi detached about 50 minutes by train outside the city. They don't indulge in any luxuries (no sky package, no fancy day trips, no expensive spa days, etc) or book extravagant holidays - they had a cheap caravan holiday to Cornwall in September. Their mortgage is naturally quite high, but still 'affordable' on their salaries. They run one car (bought second hand with savings) and have the same bills as everybody else. My sister's partner commutes to London 5 days a week and they will soon have to pay £1200 on childcare every month.

Having done the sums in my head countless times, I genuinely don't know how they're managing Confused And awful as this is, I think I, as a single parent who works part time and lives in Scotland, actually have more 'disposable income' than they do. Because even though I earn a piddly amount, I still have a couple of hundred to play with after the rent and bills are all paid. And I can't see how they have anything left Sad

I can absolutely see how the middle class is being squeezed left, right and center. Because when you're having to pay London/M4 corridor rates, there is nothing left once the high mortgage, bills and extortionate childcare fees are paid. And there is no financial help available for them. The truth of the matter is, £100K can be the difference between affluence and just getting by when you play the postcode lottery. Where I live, that kind of monthly income would have you living like kings and queens. For my sister though, it's a very tight squeeze.

rubyinthedust · 06/10/2014 17:58

I am well aware that if I choose to go part-time after maternity leave, it will be a CHOICE. I don't expect the system to change around me. However I'm not sure I like the phrasing of "if you're not prepared to put up with the effort...". I am far from work-shy, but if my husband and I are able to make ends meet with me working part-time, and it means I feel like I'm not stretching myself too thinly in any direction, then it's something that I will consider. I don't judge people who go back full-time or people who stop work entirely. Feminism is about finding what works for YOU, not slagging off other women for their choices.

ihategeorgeosborne · 06/10/2014 18:01

Exactly the same boat here Housemum.

Moid1 · 06/10/2014 18:11

Gosh am I the only one who doesn't want to go to Barbados in 2015 or skiing in 2014! I suppose when you work so bloody hard then you have to 'justify' it.

Housemum · 06/10/2014 18:20

ihategeorge - pants, isn't it? I feel that I have no right to complain because I DO have a nice house (not talking mansions, just a 90s modern estate house in a "naice" bit of town but not most expensive, hopefully we will own it in 13 years' time!) and I DO have a nice car (small diesel, nothing flashy, I should own that in 2 years!) but when food/fuel/utilities cost less we COULD go to the pub for a meal once a month. We don't even go to the local pub for a drink that often any more let alone actually eating out. Dreading the thought of school trip costs now DD2 has started secondary school (state, not private). Luckily with the big age gap we have, DD1 is 10 years older so when she started secondary we couldn't afford for her to go away more than twice.

Bassnotreble · 06/10/2014 18:22

If you are a teacher and use childcare, you have to pay for the holidays too. My childminder charges full fees for 14 weeks holiday per year even if the children don't go to 'keep the space'.

I don't think teaching is very child-friendly at all. Many teachers are in school by 7.30 am so need early morning childcare. Then there are the after school meetings, parents evenings, concerts, school trips, weekend revision courses that require you to be away from home for hours outside the average school day. You need very flexible childcare arrangements eg grandparents help to be able to commit fully to your career or even just to do get by in the job.

Greengrow · 06/10/2014 18:22

ruby, yes I agree and being home with children is in my view boring, hard domestic labour of the worst kind. I have never suggested it is some kind of lazying around. I remember what it was like when we had a 3 year old, 1 year old and baby . I have just hda all our VHS videos put on to a hard drive and there is one of the children age 1, 2 and 4 (the earliest film of them). No one had film cameras in those days but their father was allowed to borrow a video cam from school for a weekend. There is a lovely section where I am changing a cloth nappy of the youngest child and all the stages that involved and of course how much hard work 3 very small ones are on a second by second basis and also how much harder life could be for lots of people 25 years ago - our sofa had stuffing coming out of it (second hand), child 1 puts on her school uniform she'd just started that school and it was all second hand bought from the school second hand sale etc etc.,

(That country was my daughter's suggestion (Barbados). We've never been. It's hard finding somewhere 5 children and I all want to go and fit around school holidays. (I have had 30 years of fitting holidays around school holidays) We aren't skiing this year because I'm repaying debt.)

ihategeorgeosborne · 06/10/2014 18:36

We are the same Housemum, although only just bought, so 25 years to go on the mortgage. Local authority, end of terrace, so nothing flash. One car here, 14 years old and just spent £500 on it again! Have 3 dcs also and the CB hit has been massive for us. We never, ever go out as can't afford it. My clothes are all second hand or primark. Like you, we go away once a year and drive to France. We are lucky in that Dh's parents have a house out there, so that saves us loads, but other than that, no weekends away at all. I know we are better off than many, but we have definitely tightened our belts this last few years. Then I hear Nick Clegg on the radio this morning, saying that he thinks the middle class should pay more tax. I tell him to put his money where his mouth is and stump up himself. Now, I'll bet he and Miriam are loaded!

zillionare · 06/10/2014 18:43

Greengrow was that second hand uniform for you DD's private school?

TalkinPeace · 06/10/2014 18:59

Greengrow whatever makes you think I'm poor because I work part time?
I've been abroad twice this year and have my tickets for my upcoming second transatlantic holiday on the desk in front of me.
I work part time because I like to spend time with my children and husband.
I took the precaution of getting qualified before having children so I can go to yoga and then earn a good rate for the rest of the day.

Still nowhere near £100k household income though.

MonsoonInCambodia · 06/10/2014 19:10

Greengrow you have debt??!!

Moid I would love Barbados in 2015 and skiing in the winter yup siree!!

MonsoonInCambodia · 06/10/2014 19:14

Moid why is going on nice holidays 'justifying' anything? Surely they are just the fruits of ones' hard labour?

louwn · 06/10/2014 19:23

DH and I are both 29, live in an (admittedly nice part of a) Northern city, terraced house, one old car, no kids and on about 95k combined. If you'd told me when I was at university that I would have this joint salary in a few years, the spending power I'd have imagined I would have would have been significantly more. I certainly don't feel like we have a massively lavish lifestyle at all and there would be no way on earth we could put a child into private school. Our parents generation, on a similar wage taking into account inflation, and in similar jobs, would have had a much nicer lifestyle. I think that is why perhaps some of these people feel it isn't 'fair' that their income level does not provide what it once did.

SnowBells · 06/10/2014 19:23

Moid Surely, when you earn money, you can spend it on whatever you want - whether it's Barbados 2015 or Skiing 2014 or not!!! Greengrow should spend it as she wants to.

We're looking at similar holiday options… so what?!

P.S.: We spend less on our holidays than the £10k for two weeks shown on here. Still very nice hotels, etc. though. You just have to shop well.

TheWordFactory · 06/10/2014 19:26

Why would anyone need to justify working hard and being successful?

BuggersMuddle · 06/10/2014 20:03

That sounds a bit sour grapes Moid.

Some people enjoy travel. Some people enjoy winter sports. Not just wealthy people, although obviously having more money means you can do these things more frequently / comfortably..

Polonium · 06/10/2014 20:16

louwn - exactly.

Snow bells:
We once decided to try and cut our holiday costs and ended up in an all inclusive 4* hotel which was very nice and in a lovely place. But some of our fellow holiday makers were well on their way to pissed by lunchtime and loudly swearing around the pool. And the nights were horrendous: swearing, shouting, crying, ugh. It was a minority of people ruining it for the rest.

Moid1 · 06/10/2014 21:23

Yeah, point taken.

SnowBells · 06/10/2014 21:31

Polonium

Secret is not to do resorts at all (not DH's thing). Just family. No drunken people...

abouttobeevicted · 06/10/2014 21:40

I've been reading this with interest.
I've been the sahm with dh on £60k and felt quite comfortable -holidays nice clothes etc. ( no car as live in London but would love one for waitrose etc)
but I went back to work so our income was about £110k. and I stupidly put dd1 into private school fine for a couple of years £15k a year. then dd2 joined only £8k nursery and nanny £13k pt. that was nearly all my money.
then I had cancer dh had to quit his job. dds went to new state religious school.
now I work and have a sahd and I earn about £100/130k but I'm an contractor. so still not rich have debts from cancer period. rent bills transport x2 as school is 6 tube stops from us.
but we are very lucky we've been on benefits and being able to spend money on toys £10-20 per week is a luxury .eating what we want within reason. but I'm not rich.
I had a sahm private school long haul travel and ponies on my dads social worker salary in the 80/90s.

abouttobeevicted · 06/10/2014 21:42

PS Greengrow are you Xenia I loved her Blush

DaughterDilemma · 06/10/2014 21:42

You CUT your holiday costs by trying 4* all inclusive?

Grin