To think £100k pa is NOT 'the squeezed middle'?

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The article is very confidently attributing the definition to Danny Dorling, but did he really name this figure?!

These women are fools.

My 100k + plus earning hubbie has a couple of O levels to his name, was homeless at 16, a heroin addict at 17. And his dad was illiterate, his mum is smart but left when he was 10.

So really lots of way to get there, think its more due to an innate hunger than whether you have professional parents or not. So many high earners who are utterly miserable as they find themselves desperate to fuel the lifestyle that they have created and can't get off the treadmill.

I am like Pastp. I can dabble by way of hobbies in just about anything because money buys that. I remember consciously aged 15 just before O levels deciding to keep on with studies. I wrote to the then guru of self sufficiency John Seymour who offered me a "flop on the floor" if I wanted to run away to his farm. I decided if I earned a lot of money instead then I could do things like buying farms and islands. I am glad sense prevailed. I could have been a singer too but again it's nice as a hobby.

(I was asked "Greengrow: why do you not go for holidays with your kids on your island?" (i) I sold it at Easter after ten years (ii) I have and did do. We had some lovely times on it as a family. In fact my second daughter even used that island group as her university geography project for her dissertation and she and I went alone to it when she was interviewing people out there for her dissertation. However I have also been to it alone. I need time with children and time alone and always have done and feel very lucky to know how I am, what I need and to be able to get it.)

I thought most classical literature reinforced the notion that there are rich and poor, don't remember there being lessons in working hard and social mobility.

It's also worth noting that social mobility has deceased .

So whilst in the past a few like me squeezed through the gaps, it's hard to see it happening now.

The advice for young people isn't always great or correct or existent.

So many barriers.

For those who were lucky in life I don't think they would be able to do that today. Competition for jobs is fierce (so I have been told by the better earners) and you need to leave school with top qualifications in order to even get a look in. Again, so I've been told here. Things just aren't what they used to be. We also have had the opening of our borders and the dissolution of the USSR which has resulted in millions of keen, well educated and english speaking migrant workers adding to that competition. Not forgetting the equally well qualified and experienced migrants from recession-hit Southern Europe.

What has also happened is that the pay gap has widened. There's not so much of a squeezed middle as no middle. You either earn over 60k or you earn under 30k. The Resolution Foundation themselves talk of it as a two tier wage system.

People my age still think that things are more or less as they used to be, with social/class movement but there has been lots of research to show that it just isn't like that any more.

So good on you if you succeeded by pulling up your bootstraps but I think your stories of success in unlikely places won't be experienced by the next few generations.

daughter yes indeed.

Competition is so very fierce. When I applied for my job in the city I needed a 2.1 and no facial tattoos!

Nowadays the applicants come from all over the world and have all singing all dancing CVs.

Times have changed.

I do hope the government does something about it as it's giving young Brits a very bleak future.

It's also worth noting that social mobility has deceased

I don't think this is widely appreciated at all.

I think the government can get away with it because much of the traditional middle class are in complete denial.

They haven't noticed the insidious creep that will exclude their DC every bit as much as the working classes.

And by 'it' I mean nothing.

They're not going to stop messing with the public exam systems. They're not going to pay for good advice to all pupils.
They're not going to get rid of university fees (quite the opposite).
They're not going to outlaw internships etc...

Hello Arse

I'm not reading full thread so apologies, sure this has already been stated, but its not necessarily income that determines where the squeezed middle are.
You know are position well, but low income in some cases has helped us achieve what we want in life.
Had we had the 100k jobs we would probably have a far less disposable income because things that we call luxuries become essentials when you earn such money.
For instance an exotic holiday is not important for us, we have nothing to get away from we love our life and don't need to escape it.
I'm damn sure if we were working for the pounds of flesh that such a salary would necessitate we would need an escape.
An old banger wouldn't do so we'd need 2 cars,
The dc would go to private school and we'd have to pay for fees, rather than getting them for free.
We and other people in our position have a higher disposable income free from constraints than many couples we know on 150k, so they can keep their money

I think the government can get away with it because much of the traditional middle class are in complete denial.

Bloody good observation. I fear I am one of them as were my parents before me. I have personally chosen the lifestyle that morethan has, spending less but still having a fulfilled life.

My concern is that we will be the last generation able to choose a low cost lifestyle as working conditions are now so awful when you are on a low wage. Has anyone recently talked to someone who works in a call centre? I personally can afford to not tolerate working in these conditions, but millions simply have no choice. It's wrong while there are so many others being paid so much more just because they have had a little extra training or got slightly higher grades at school.

The squeezed middle is more about the fact that there aren't enough middles left - you end up either side of the line and once over it you can't get back across.

Really disagree with the ascertation that Florence Nightingale was a "mere" nurse -truly ignorant and misogynistic greengrow she was a passionate and influential social reformer.
That tap water -nice and clean,that you like to drink,came about because of her campaigning.
I doubt when you need caring for in your old age you will be so sneery and dismissive of nurses.

We are going to run out of space on the thread. Too many women pick low paid roles and leave higher paid jobs to men. I want your daughters to aim to be leading surgeons not call centre workers. I think that's a very laudable aim. That does not mean I think call centre workers are lesser beings at all. It is just I am concerned too many women aim too low.

Someone wrote "You either earn over 60k or you earn under 30k". I get the point and agree to an extent although one of my daughters earns £55k including bonus so is exactly in that range for now although I am sure she would hope to double it in due course.

Hi Mrs Potato

I think the problem now is that 'low cost lifestyle' and home ownership are pretty much mutually exclusive.

Daughter I just see some people at my age running round like a headless chicken with nothing to show for it at the end.

My ds works in a call centre, ironically.
Atm he loves it, but it is a new up and coming company where he seems to have found his niche.
I'm not sure how long he'll be happy or what the future holds but it seems to be making him happy.
Depending on the company though they can provide a really good base into other professions/jobs and he has had several promotions since being there, he is nearly 20.
Ds1 works for Asda and likewise has had numerous promotions and hopefully due to their share scheme will have enough for house deposit soon, he is 23.
DD is 10 and on her way to world domination as an opera singer [grin

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/2205450--100k-pa-discussion-thread

Let's not make this all about greengrow.

Greengrow is like 'Superworker', the highest evolution of the UK worker, prepared hand her children soon after birth to a nanny and to continue forging on like she did when she had her lightbulb moment as a teenager. If anything bad ever happened to Greengrow she would have had a plan for it because nothing would take her by surprise and force her to stop working. It's the way we should all be, but aren't.

She's at the opposite end of the Evolutionary Scale of Workers to White Dee.

She comes across as sneering because she tells it like it is, for her. Not sure I can fault her for it (wish I could!).

We are going to run out of space on the thread. Too many women pick low paid roles and leave higher paid jobs to men. I want your daughters to aim to be leading surgeons not call centre workers. I think that's a very laudable aim. That does not mean I think call centre workers are lesser beings at all. It is just I am concerned too many women aim too low.

But greengrow not everyone can earn six figures.

It's just not the answer to the economic issue.

Morethan Does call centre DS live at home with you?

If people don't take advantage of the fantastic free schooling in this country for children then more fool them.

Greengrow

I was earning nearly what your daughter is earning at 20 in 1986.
Now that was an income.
Do you know what though, the money meant nothing when I had ds1 and no way was I going to raise my dc with nannies and having to work, they were too precious. This to me is aiming high, not working for others.
You seem to think that everything boils down to how much money you have well for some of us we are happy with far less money.
I think if you can say you have reached self actualisation (Maslow) in your 20's you have pretty much cracked it and apart from the ability to continue at this level you don't need anything else.
Being happy in life has newt to do with your earning potential, for me it is a happy marriage and stable home for our dc.

Daughter

Yes he does, but he is learning to be savy with money. He has aspergers so wouldn't want him on his own really.
The time is coming close though
Why do you ask? Was it in relation to his generation being home owners?