To think £100k pa is NOT 'the squeezed middle'?

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Link

The article is very confidently attributing the definition to Danny Dorling, but did he really name this figure?!

These women are fools.

You have to scroll to the bottom to look at a non senior ledership teacher (ie a teacher, not a head/deputy) earns.

Most will earn under 31 outside of london (page 6 - left column spine point 1-6). In London most teachers will be in the second column (27-36grand), so yes, £50 grand would be pretty impossible for most teachers to earn without being in charge of a school.

In London £50K isn't difficult at all for a teacher to earn.
Sorry?
Look at page 6 of that link - the one about classroom teachers - the highest possible salary is £45,450

heads salaries and SLT salaries are not what most of the staff of 200 in a big school will be earning

It's hard when you keep doing the same job without pay rises or bonuses while the cost of everything moves up - that's the real "squeezed middle". I am under no illusions that we are hard up - household income (thanks to DH, as I earn under 10k in a part time job) is 70k combined, we could manage on less by making drastic lifestyle changes, but it feels like rather than moving forward, we are going slowly back towards the lifestyle we had when we first got together and had no money!. Child benefit was instantly removed because of DH - no gradual phasing out, just instantly £150 ish a month worse off. We can cut back - DH plays golf which costs £80/month for membership and a few drinks, that could go. Have already had to curtail the girls' after school activities after child benefit went - they used to go to 4 classes each of various things. DD2 can swim so we stopped the lessons rather than get the next level. They each chose a dance class to give up. We do guides/rainbows because that's cheap. We eat out about twice a year. Holidays are this country or driving to a French gite - always budget at £1500 or less for 2 weeks for the 4 of us. No weekend breaks/theme park trips (except every 2-3 years when we get enough Tesco points). We don't get takeaways. We cut the Sky TV service and stick to Freeview now. Don't get the latest mobiles - I did have an iPhone a few years back which I keep going on a SIM only deal. Years ago I thought that in my 40s I'd have a lifestyle like in Woman and Home, popping to the shops and choosing nice clothes from wherever I felt like, not sticking to Sainsburys and Primark and waiting for the sales. Have bought 2 new items of clothing for myself in the last year. Luckily all 3 of our kids are girls so we need to buy very little, just undies really, as the rest gets passed down. Look forward to the little bonus twice a year from selling outgrown stuff at the NCT sale. We have so much and so little at the same time, depressing really.

I have probably used the wrong terminology when I say mid level. What I meant was not a newly qualified teacher but not a head either.

Anyway, point being that to have a household income of £100k you are not necessarily a scum of the earth lawyer.

edam if they have no talent then that's luck. if they have no desire that's their choice and they know they are choosing less well paid jobs.

Snow you can't, of course. But you can try to level the playing field somewhat. And improving the chances of those who would otherwise have very little chance benefits us all in the long run.

Thanks Talkin!

Teachers pay is similar to that of nurses and social workers and non senior OTs as far as I can see. It's funny to see what some people are thinking.

I certainly should have had greengrow advising me as I left Oxbridge.

like polo unfortunately, i dont think £100k is a stupidly high family income once you start knocking off in some cases, a sole earners 40% tax, lack of child benefit and less childcare vouchers from earnings.

Its very high, dont get me wrong but the take home will not be as great, on first thoughts, as you think it might be. I can totally how see how you could not be rolling in it when on £100k but fail to understand why these parents have persisted with their lifestyle/school fees etc.

Erm I'm not "thinking" it. It is fact.

And even if you chose to believe my DSis and her husband are just a fairytale (and they're not) Talkinpeace has just pointed out that even with no managerial responsibility a classroom teacher can earn £45k. So one married to another can have a household income of £90k even without the added managerial responsibility and the supplements, not far off the magic £100k we are discussing.

Also, i know a whole bunch of very capable and university educated people who are on very low salaries as they can't find a better job.

which is sad but partly a result of the fact that everyone goes to university nowadays.

housemum, you sound like me!!

atticus
Indeed, there are households with two teachers on good salaries
BUT
To do that they both have to work full time so spend a fortune on child care.
The reality is that teachers work full time till they have kids, then part time for up to 15 years and then full time again, by which time it is too late to reach the top of the pay scale.

ONLY In finance, law and meejah is £100k considered a reasonable salary.

Hmm, it is true that there are some well-paying jobs in schools, if you are part of the leadership/management team, but if you look at the website Polonium has just linked to, you will see that even the most experienced teachers in inner London still earn less than £50K. Also, to get onto the Upper Pay Scale, one must apply (and supply a whole lot of evidence as to why you are worthy) and it isn't given to all - many teachers get stuck on L6 for a long time. You also must apply to get from UPS1 to 2, or 2 to 3.

With performance-related pay becoming more and more of a reality, I don't expect these figures to change for the better. My husband and I are both secondary school teachers (I'm in comprehensive, he's in private) and we earn about £70K together - living in Surrey. To earn more, one of us would need to go for a senior leadership role, but these aren't easy to combine with having small children. We've decided to move up to the Midlands next year to get more for our money.

Not complaining - we're quite happy with what we have - but I doubt many teachers are rolling in it!

Even in law there are many many lawyers who don't earn anywhere near £100k. I didn't earn that much until I left to set up my own firm and I worked for a very large, well known national and was a senior lawyer. I was then a partner in another big firm. Still didn't earn £100k.

There are clearly not many people who earn six figures but this is about £100k household income which means a £60k and a £30k salary. Very different and far more likely. Not going to result in a household where they are rolling in it.

Yup - what Ruby and Talkin say!

And Talkin is spot on with one parent going part time or coming out altogehter for a huge chunk of time. I don't know many teachers that both manage full time and parenting. In fact, although I know they exist, I don't know any. In the schools I taught in (quite academic and high pressure) one partner would be part time, and most of the "mothers" were part time unless they were returning.

Oops I can add up honestly! I meant 60k 40k (this is why I'm a lawyer and not an accountant! )

Talkinpeace - but most teachers take on responsibility for something and earn extra money for it. My nephew is early 30s and he's been a deputy head for a while, his girlfriend is a bit younger. Their joint income is £98,000 And as I said they get a key worker flat.

atticus - in my school of about 90 teaching staff, only 8 are earning senior leadership salaries. They are not "mid-range" teachers by any means. We do have "middle managers", like heads of departments, but they earn "teaching and learning responsibility points" (TLRs) on top of their normal teacher salary. This can be anything from about £500 to £9000 (for heads of big departments, like Science, Humanities... still only talking about a couple members of staff in the school!).

So yeah - the majority of us are somewhere between L1 and L6, with the most experienced staff on UPS, and a chosen few getting leadership salaries.

Talkinpeace why do teachers with children have to spend any more on childcare than any other workers? In fact they probably spend less because they get the school holidays.

Edam I didn't say that working hard and doing well at school is a ticket to high earning.

Obviously, many highly educated people choose careers where they don't earn a lot of money. But that is a choice.

And not one that they can get all het up about after the fact.

It's a lot easier to both be full-time teachers than it is to both be full-time anything else!

Not in my case, Polonium. If both parents have to be in by 8 you need childminders who would do before 8 care (rare around here, and the nurseries won't). Teachers can't rearrange time to watch school plays/sports days etc.

Certainly my non teacher friends have found it easier to get compressed hours/flexible hours/ rearrange between them to watch school events/ one start earlier/one start later for nusery pick ups.

In my case I'm not actually married to a teacher but my husband travels a lot. For me to return we'd need an au pair (no space) or a nanny or a mythical childminder that does a 7.30 drop off.

2 teachers at childbearing stage will often be earning in low-mid 20s so may not earn enough to support a lot of childcare depending on where they live.

Certainly two teachers would have it sorted for the holidays! I do envy them being able to travel with children together.

Polonium just how many posts of responsibility do you think there are in schools? I work in a big school with 90 teaching staff. The majority of departments will have about 7-12 teachers in it, one of these will be the Head of Department and another one will be the Second in Department. The rest are "just" teachers. Yes - it is possible to do more to get more, but it really isn't fair to say that "most teachers" take on a post of responsibility!

It should be said as well that in many schools, such as mine, you cannot work part-time and have an extra responsibility, which means that I will lose my current post should I decide to go back part-time post maternity leave - which I think I'll want to do as I work about 14 hours a day when I work full-time. Teaching has a lot of advantages but anyone who thinks they'll earn a lot of money doing it is bonkers.

I'm sure if both partners earn 100 grand then a nanny sorts most childcare problems :)

I moved out of London as we couldn't afford to live there and honestly the life mentioned on this thread would be laughed at by most in my social circle.

is glad I do not work full time or have to fit around other people's hours
is glad DH does not work full time and he and I can juggle our diaries
has only spent just under £2000 in child care during the last 16 years