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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be tired of teachers exaggerating

454 replies

onarailwaytrain · 29/09/2014 22:19

Dd and DS (twins) in year 11 at the moment and all we have heard is how they have to get their GCSEs, their lives will be ruined if they don't, they will never get to college and never get a good job. Etc.

Dd in particular is unlikely to get many cs or above. AIBU in thinking the teachers should back off a bit?

OP posts:
LarrytheCucumber · 01/10/2014 10:58

I wrote to my MP about the issue of every child being expected to get maths and English at C or above. I can't see the point of making children retake and retake, thereby reinforcing to them that they haven't made the grade. He agreed with me and forwarded my letter.
I got a reply from Michael Gove's department saying that in extremely rare cases an exception would be made for children with special needs.
This is where it is coming from, top down, and you can't be surprised that teachers are made by their senior management, to reinforce the view.
My DS was lucky enough to attend an outstanding school where his value added score was one of the highest in his year. He achieved 5 Cs and a clutch of lower grades (Maths E). For him this was a major achievement, having a Statement and having come close to permanent exclusion several times. He has Aspergers.
His school did not make him feel a failure, they did everything they could to encourage him. He is nearly 20 now and works mainly in security. He took his SIA licence followed by a course to enable him to work as a trainer and he trains others, he took a first aid course and does paid work at events as a first aider. He does door work in night clubs.
Most of these jobs are fairly low status, and all are ad hoc, but he works.To be honest when he was 15 I would have been delighted to think that at some time in the future he might hold down a job in McDonalds.
OP I agree with you, frightening young people and making them feel failures is not the answer, but it is part of the culture today.

Momagain1 · 01/10/2014 11:17

Oh, Delphinium, the thing is, whatever the changes are, this attitude is NOT new this year. Teachers, and parents, have thrown such negative motivation at children for generations. They do it in school systems that dont even have a formal exams sequence, but apply it to whatever other thing has been determined to be the One Thing That Will Define You For Life in that system. There are the very few who take it as a challenge, dig deep and manage to do better than expected. But a great many, having known themselves and their abilities rather intimately, accept the message that they are useless and doomed.

On theother hand, kids both academically talented and not, clever or not look around them and see the whole thing is a lie. They can see people who got their papers and still are unemployed or underemployed. They can see people who graduated without, began at the lowest level and moved up, managing to aquire paper qualifications on a strictly as needed basis. Maybe they were always better than everyone thought at the One Thing stage. Maybe they have simply relaxed due to the confidence of accomplishment outside of academics. Maybe their slow development has finally brought them to the academic maturity others had at 15.

Threatening students with a line that ignores these truths is a particular tunnel vision of teachers, after all. The system worked for them. Their students results may have recently become formally part of their job review, but the concept has been there all along. a teacher whose students consistently did poorly was moved to another year, or another school, or simply given a roomful of students like OPs DCs, who mostly left before exams happened.

I know you want us to be all very aware of the new requirement for paper qualifications at the lowest level of jobs, but even that may well fall by the wayside if employers find it useless. The OPs children already have entry level jobs, and if they do well, and their employers want to promote them ways will be found in the post-secondary system. It may be that they have to aquire the paper qualifications later, but that is much easier to do, for some, outside the high school atmosphere and with a specific goal and focus. That's why these systems exist.

Kendodd · 01/10/2014 11:33

Has your pay been directly linked to those children's exam results?

So what if it is, teachers are actually well paid and should have the good grace to acknowledge this. I wholeheartedly support teachers complaints and even strikes about workload, but pay, no.

One thing that really annoys me is this looking down at so called menial jobs and by implication the people who do them. These are valuable important jobs that the shelf stacker or road sweeper or whatever do and the people who do them deserve respect. And as I said earlier, what's wrong with working at KFC.

I remember during the Maclibel trial, the world wide head of Mac Donald's came to give testimony. He told how he was a poor black teenager with no qualifications, exactly the sort of person who your children's teachers would have written off, he worked his way up through the company and was now CEO of a large multinational.

I hate fast food btw Grin

You said your son has a job washing up at a local hotel, what opportunities are available to him from that? Does he like cooking? Can he move up to junior chef or move to the hospitality side and start waiting tables?

Kendodd · 01/10/2014 11:37

BTW I think Nigel Slater started working in a hotel kitchen like that. I've got his autobiography at home, if you think your son's reading skills are good enough, pm me and I'll send it to you.

Actually, maybe not, it does have a lot of sex in it, hmm... I'll leave it up to you if you want it.

Kendodd · 01/10/2014 11:55

A link for you railway

www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/robbiewilliams/hellosir.html

You just tell your children to work, work work, do their very best in school, do their very best at that washing up job, do their very best and make sure they are the best employee at KFC or wherever and they'll be ok. Don't let anyone piss on their dreams.

SirRaymondClench · 01/10/2014 13:41

YADNBU OP

My DS probably won't get a single GCSE and he is year 11 too.
I have broken my heart over the endless phone calls and trying to put things in place to help him. He is Dyspraxic but also incredibly lazy too.
I have accepted that he won't get much by way of grades now.
I can't make him work harder and even if I could he just isn't academic.
That doesn't mean his life is meaningless though.

I know at least two millionaires (one who is a billionaire) who left school without passing a single exam. One taught himself to read and write in his 20s. Although it is the ideal in our society it actually is nothing close to the measure of a person.
If someone wants to do something with their lives, nothing really will stop them.

LarrytheCucumber · 01/10/2014 14:56

SirRaymond That is the problem with the prevailing emphasis on academic achievement.
I agree with you. It doesn't mean his life is meaningless. I hope he finds something he is really interested in.

smokepole · 01/10/2014 15:40

Larrythe cucumber. Despite what the majority of posters think, or may think working on any Pub or Club Door requires great skill, tact maturity and team work. It has got to be one of the most difficult and challenging jobs out there. People on here (with their middle class lives, probably do not understand the amount of "Skill" needed to be on any Door). They probably believe its a job for "Thugs" and use the much misused word "BOUNCERS" which of course takes no account of the training involved today. Doormen are under intense pressure these days not to "hurt" someone not that easy if someone has threatened to "kill" you or glassed a customer.

Good on your son and best of luck to him, taking on a job that 98% of the population (Including "Police" Officers would not last one night doing).

HesterShaw · 01/10/2014 16:02

People on here (with their middle class lives, probably do not understand the amount of "Skill" needed to be on any Door). They probably believe its a job for "Thugs" and use the much misused word "BOUNCERS" which of course takes no account of the training involved today.

If there's one thing MN has taught me over the years is that you cannot generalise about the "class" of posters. You sound like someone making comments in the Daily Mail about MN posters who has never actually read the site. There's an interesting thread running at the moment about inverse snobbery.

Angry

But what do I know. I know nothing beyond my middle class life.

SirRaymondClench · 01/10/2014 18:55

Thank you Larry Thanks
I think once he grows up a bit he will be just fine and find his feet doing something he loves. That's all any of us can hope for anyway.

Re the class thing and snobbery, I am UC and I have also worked doors before having been a promoter working in night clubs and music venues.
It is a skilled position and dealing with all manner of drunken and drug fuelled customers is about as challenging as it can get at times.
The entertainment industry needs good door staff, and I have worked with fantastic ones and horrendous ones. It definitely isn't easy!

SirRaymondClench · 01/10/2014 18:58

Larry btw your son sounds great, motivated, hard working and dependable (he definitely is if he is in such a position of trust). He will go far in life.
I never passed my GCSE Maths. I am Dyscalc and in a million years would never pass it. It has never stopped me doing whatever I wanted in life Grin

pea84 · 01/10/2014 19:49

Teachers are well paid! Heard it all now!

TheBogQueen · 01/10/2014 20:16

Teachers are well paid!

BoneyBackJefferson · 01/10/2014 20:17

Kendodd

"So what if it is"
"teachers are actually well paid and should have the good grace to acknowledge this."

why should my pay be linked to your attitude? I and my colleagues are not just battling your child's apathy we are also fighting against your attitude.

When your child chooses my subject, I want them to do well, but when I get "its just xxxx" or (my favourite) "they already have a place at x" from parents then what is the point of even trying?

pea84 · 01/10/2014 21:17

I don't feel my £24,000 a year salary is particularly well paid for all the work and hours I put in but thats another thread altogether. People certainly don't go into teaching for the money that's for sure. Luckily I love my job and wouldn't change it but the apparent £37,000 salary of a KFC manager is quite appealing.

LarrytheCucumber · 01/10/2014 21:22

It is a skilled position and dealing with all manner of drunken and drug fuelled customers is about as challenging as it can get at times. DS would be pleased to hear you say that. His worst door was at a McDonalds. He stuck it about 4 months. People would turn out of the clubs at 2am and pile into McDonalds and make trouble there. I was so glad when he gave that one up.

lomega · 01/10/2014 21:25

I'm probably coming across as a dramatic trembling rabbit in headlights here, but when my teachers laid it on thick that we'd need good grades to get on in life, it scared me into studying hard and doing well...One teacher even said (to the whole class when misbehaving) "It won't be my fault if you end up homeless unable to pay your bills because noone will employ you!" That one was a bit harsh, and scared the crap out of me...but hey, it did the job...

TheBogQueen · 01/10/2014 21:26

Think teachers should be well paid. But can I gently remind you that many, many people earn much less working unsocial hours (shift work, lorry driving) in dreadful conditions (digging roads in driving rain, roofing in freezing conditions, lugging cement bags in blazing sun)

You also have a chance at career progression, your earning potential is much greater than many folk who will always earn £17,000/year.

Managing a KFC demands many skills and alot of knowledge if you think about it. It will also be unsociable hours - late nights, early mornings, weekends etc

Coolas · 01/10/2014 21:32

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

onarailwaytrain · 01/10/2014 21:37

Lomega presumably you could get those results. Imagine being and feeling scared like that and not being able to get them?

I earn 7.90 ph. Teachers are well paid!

OP posts:
ravenAK · 01/10/2014 21:42

To be fair, managing restaurants happens to have been my pre-teaching career.

I now work much sillier hours & have a lower disposable income - & that's at the top of the teaching pay scale.

But yes, the gratitude & respect of the nation makes it all so worth while! Grin

pea84 · 01/10/2014 21:45

We will have to agree to disagree. Obviously there are many jobs that pay much less than a teachers salary but in my eyes it is not a well paid job. Oh and we also work all those unsocial hours that KFC managers etc have to work.

lomega · 01/10/2014 21:55

I was very scared, especially as I DIDN'T get the grade for maths (still have major issues with it now) and I remember crying to my mum aged about 15 that I was going to end up on the streets because I failed my mocks. I still worked bloody hard though in other subjects, and put myself under immense pressure - but omg I'm still scared even now that if I don't bust a gut at work I'll lose my house etc =(

smokepole · 01/10/2014 22:03

Raven. That's an odd career change , I can't think of many if any "Professional" catering staff that have gone into a teaching career.

Three reasons: 1 They Never had the time working to 1-2AM every Friday Saturday Night.
:2 If there were remotely academic , they would have got out of catering as soon as possible and only used it to pay way though University (the reason many chefs choose to work in Catering Colleges (Its "EASY" And better paid then working in the Real Industry.
: 3 There is nothing like catering for being a different "World" to any other industry.

I would like to know what job you had in Catering/ Running A Restaurant that earned you £50K plus and allowed you enough time to study for a degree?.

50k Plus is "Huge Salary" in Catering and is what a General Manager of a luxury 150 Bedroom 4 Star Hotel would be delighted to earn.
A position that requires up to 20 years "Hard Graft" and luck to get to and in any other industry the level of expertise (including Teaching would be 100K plus minimum salary = to a Head Teacher).

TheBogQueen · 01/10/2014 22:07

Ok, ok poor teachers etc etc