To be tired of teachers exaggerating

[onarailwaytrain]

Dd and DS (twins) in year 11 at the moment and all we have heard is how they have to get their GCSEs, their lives will be ruined if they don't, they will never get to college and never get a good job. Etc.

Dd in particular is unlikely to get many cs or above. AIBU in thinking the teachers should back off a bit?

We were told by our Head Teacher yesterday that our annual cost of living pay rise (so not moving up the pay scale, but getting the 1% pay rise the government has decreed) is dependent on reaching performance management targets. These are linked to academic results. Last year, 2 students didn't turn up for their practical exam in my subject. This meant that my results were not what I had predicted. So I miss my pay rise and, in real term, get a pay cut. So excuse me for feeling hard done by.

Is that 'allowed,' evil? Surely the cost of living rise is separate from performance-related pay?

Given you are earning £7.90 ph. what academic qualifications did you get OP?

Has it ever occured to you that all these well paid teachers who are nagging your kids just want them to try their hardest?

I'm really sorry and I havnt read the full thread, as I usually do.

You're making a good point OP. I have a year 11 who is likely to do very well and he's getting a bit stressed.

I have a younger one who is not at all likely to do well academically, though he has other skills. It's a bloody uphill struggle keeping his self esteem up.

The school system is round pegs square holes for some.

I agree it isn't the fault of individual teachers though. That said, tact and sensitivity help.

I tell my youngest he has plenty of water in the glass, as it were. Half full, not half empty, of lots of useful skills and qualities.

Dinosarporn: Has it ever occured to you that all these well paid teachers who are nagging your kids just want them to try their hardest?

OMG that's amazing. you nailed it. just try harder. Why did no one ever think of this before? Maybe you should write a book telling parents how their children should just try their hardest and all will be well. Because that is all it takes - right?

Has it ever occured to you that some children are less academically able than others? Even after trying their best.

Has it ever occured to you that most parents might actually want the best for their children?

Has it ever occured to you that some teachers might actually get it wrong when teaching not very academic children. Because let's face it it is easy to teach the bright ones - someone who can get a lot out of a child who does not shine academically is a really rare and valuable teacher.

You can be a nice well behaved child who doesn't actually put that much effort in. I can think of lots of people I went to school with who the teachers really liked, but they (and their parents) really didn't think school was important so it wasn't ever a priority.
It's not just about teachers securing payrises, most teachers I know just want their pupils to put in 100% effort, regardless of how academic they, and very few do. But hey, MN loves teacher bashing. God forbid we as parents hold our children's success (and I don't just mean academic) as a reflection on how we brought them up.

evil you're not the only one. Our school has withheld our 1% pay rise, too.
I earn 23000. This might seem like a lot, perhaps,but I have 39000 of student debt to my name to have got to my position! I also can't afford to pay my rent anymore, as I am deeply in my overdraft.

It's hard because I have a class of year 11s that I need to help meet their target grades. I could say to SLT next year that one couldn't because their mum died, one couldn't because she was raped, one couldn't because he doesn't get fed at home... But that would be me 'making excuses'. I need to ensure they make their three levels of progress! And there are those who say 'my mum says she doesn't mind me failing French as long as I focus on my other subjects'.

I do have to say OP though, this year there is less focus on everyone getting a C, and more focus on children meeting their own targets. Are you sure they won't meet their target grades at all?

I'm in an academy so I think they can do what they like with regards to pay.

I agree that bright kids are not easier but different.

Ds1 is predicted a*-a across the board. He wants to be a vet so the pressure he puts on himself is huge. During yr6 sats his teachers went on about trying your hardest, doing well etc to the whole class and he came home in bits. I told the teacher that if they didnt back off I would withdraw him from the tests.

Ds2 has been diagnosed as dyslexic. He is yr8 and currently on target for cs in every subject except the wordy ones- english, history etc.

They all have their own goals and the teachers work incedibly hard to ensure they achieve them and need to be supported in this.

God, that is awful that some schools are taking that approach to pay. My school is much more supportive and realistic-as long as you can show the myriad ways you tried to help students achieve their indicatives, and you have good teaching observations, then that is usually enough to pass pmr.

I've had a pretty good year. Got made an SLE, got 100% A-C for my BTEC group and my A level class all got at least C grades. The two kids not showing for the GCSE exam has stuffed me though.

Some of your schools are being ultra harsh with pay / progression.

At mine (academy), they understand that you can have a tricky GCSE group. If that's the case, you can supplement your evidence with the progress your other groups have made, in addition to providing an explanation for why some children didn't make expected progress.

The expectation is that every teacher will progress, unless there are concerns in several groups that they teach.

However, I still feel that OP needs to have a word with the school about the language they are using to 'motivate' their students.

Just in response to the teachers saying they are not well paid.

Teacher salaries. At a minimum of £22,023 (or £27,543 in inner London), the starting salary in teaching is high compared to other graduate starting salaries. Leading practitioners can earn up to £65,324 in London and £58,096 outside London, while head teachers can reach a salary of between £42,232 and £114,437.
Teacher salaries - Department for Education

Average salary in the UK is about £26,000, many many people are paid much less.

I should add I don't begrudge a penny of teachers pay, they should be paid well, they do a hard job and most of them are brilliant at it. If they think they're not paid well though, I actually think that's quite worrying, because it shows them to be really out of touch with what the rest of us are paid and have to live on.

It's not high compared to other graduates though - only at the beginning. Most graduates overtake teachers by the end of their professional careers. Most teachers don't want to be managers so referring to SLT salaries is a bit of a red herring.

It's not high compared to other graduates though

Everyone and their dog has a degree these days though, it doesn't mark people out as highly educated anymore.

Most graduates overtake teachers by the end of their professional careers.

Maybe people at the end of their careers today (do you have a link?) so people who started out 40 years ago when not many had degrees.

If only those salary scales were real.

To be honest, they exist only on paper, they are part of the great lie that brings in more graduates. To get that level of pay you have to be very political, work your socks off, have no home life and be prepared to dies early, before your pension kicks in - the stress at those levels is horrendous.

I am a Lead Practitioner- the role is unpaid - there are 15 members of staff who have this unpaid role, over and above their teaching role... I am also a Subject Leader - I run a dept - and I don't earn half that!

I am also the poor sod who has to tell an enormous number of 16 - 19 year olds that they will have to continue sitting GCSEs, regardless of whether or not they have an equivalent certificate.

So now I have them for 2 years when they expected to be out there earning a living and I force them to do more maths and English. My whole job is telling them that anything but a C is not good enough.

Why?

I have no fucking idea! Ask the government. And until then tell your kids, they simply MUST achieve C in maths and English or anything they do 16 - 18 will include GCSE resits. Anything they do, other than work (and even then...) until they are about 24, any benefits etc, will include GCSE resits.

That will probably include Apprenticeships in about 3 years time, as well!

If you don't like it, get off your high horse and contact your MP. Don't moan at any teacher who is ramming home the C grade message. They are only telling your kids what he government has decreed they MUST achieve!

£114,437 for a manager with responsibility for probably 50+ staff and 1,000 kids isn't well paid.

To compare the salaries - I taught for 10 years and was on the same salary as my DH. I was a classroom teacher, he was/is the manager of a small shop.

His working hours: 10.5 hours per day with two paid breaks. 4 weeks of annual leave plus bank holidays. Beyond that, ZERO work at home. He also gets bonuses based on the shop performance.

Mine: Officially 8 hours per day with one hour of that an unpaid break. Unofficially, 10.5 hours a day spent at work with a quick loo break or two, working through lunch and break time. An hour or two in the evening on top, and minimum 6 hours at the weekend. No bonus (obviously), longer holidays with work to do in them.

Qualifications? He has a couple of O levels (none at grade C or above). I have a degree and a post graduate qualification. The only advantage to my bothering to get those qualifications is more holiday time really - the hours in term time were more for less pay (once bonuses were taken into account) and I had to work in the evenings and weekends on top of the long day. If you looked at our jobs, you'd say why bother getting those 'Cs' at GCSE - you can earn more and have a less stressful job with nothing. Times have changed though and it's not as easy to work your way up any more. My DH has been lucky...

I know that I promised not to post, but I am so relieved to find someone who actually understands the point that I was making!
That is it in a nutshell Nomama - all I was trying to say but didn't seem to be understood.

And the new rules were in my links, which were not read by many.

But Bronya you also had a final salary pension scheme , with guaranteed survivors pension and dependants benefits .I don't expect as a shop manager he would have any pension at all

Nomama (or any one Could I please ask if you can pm me or post here any links to any information about the 'required' C grade for English and Maths, please?

You said Ask the government. And until then tell your kids, they simply MUST achieve C in maths and English or anything they do 16 - 18 will include GCSE resits. Anything they do, other than work (and even then...) until they are about 24, any benefits etc, will include GCSE resits.

Because I would love to write to the government if I understood it all. The idea that all kids will achieve a standard grade is so laughable and the idea my hard earned taxes will be spent achieving this just makes me very angry (in a not blaming teachers kind of way!)

The BBC reporting of the story sounds like those who do not get a grade C at English and Maths will need to keep studying them from 16-18 but does not appear to mention anything beyond that.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-23925033

I'm also wondering if the way we test young people might be partly at fault? are all the people failing exams because they don't know or can't do the work or is some of it that exam style testing is not best suited to all.

Thanks.

Here is another link
It is going to make a difference to thousands of pupils - the teacher may have put it badly but it is a huge change.