To be tired of teachers exaggerating

[onarailwaytrain]

Dd and DS (twins) in year 11 at the moment and all we have heard is how they have to get their GCSEs, their lives will be ruined if they don't, they will never get to college and never get a good job. Etc.

Dd in particular is unlikely to get many cs or above. AIBU in thinking the teachers should back off a bit?

I'm slightly stunned reading this thread how many posters are telling the OP exactly what teachers are telling her children - if they only worked harder, pulled themselves up, reealised what a hard scary world it is out there, they'd do fine in their exams - oh and also and their lives are ruined if they don't pass these exams.

Not everyone has the same academic IQ/ability with academic subjects. It's lovely for the people who have dyslexic children who are very bright but just can't get it down on paper but that isn't what the OP's children are like according to her (and she should know). They are not that academic and no amount of hard work (or demands by teachers or explanations by posters that everyone needs an academic qualification) will make them so.

I'm sure they have other excellent qualities and forms of intelligence that will contribute hugely to society, form great relationships and will allow them to be self-sustaining adults eventually. Is the UK now a society where if you have a lower than average IQ academically, you are doomed forever?

YANBU My nephew has been made to feel like a failure because he most likely won't get C's. He is dyslexic, suddenly 'discovered' last year. I knew he couldn't read, that something wasn't clicking for him. His parents were treat as if they were stupid by both junior and senior schools for broaching the subject. To top it off he was not given the extra time and a helper like he should have been because it was not organised and the teacher on the day didn't believe him.

There are a lot of children being failed by the system at the moment. Children who are by no means stupid and who are capable of holding down decent jobs if given the chance. I just don't think it's that relevant. I am educated to degree level and work alongside people who failed all of their GCSEs, you couldn't tell, we can all do our job. I don't think it maters and think it stinks that children are made to feel worthless. If you can't help buoy the school's results you dint matter in today's education system.

Is the UK now a society where if you have a lower than average IQ academically, you are doomed forever?

Seems so doesn't it canyou so sad for people who cannot do well in exams (and that's what it is, not real knowledge and insight, just the ability to pass exams).

Leaving with few or no qualifications is not the end of the world, but does limit opportunities (even if you have Olympic potential). If your DCs are becoming overly stressed because of teachers pressuring them, approach the school and tell them of your concerns and discuss more appropriate ways of supporting your DCs - try getting ideas about this from your DCs too. If you haven't already, sit down with them and see what they need to achieve results-wise to get the future they want. If they are REALLY unlikely to pass certain subjects can you talk to the school about dropping these to enable DCs to concentrate on maths and english?

From a few pages back

This was over 10 yrs agoTeracotta- I could tell you countless stories like the boy who started shelf stacking in Tesco and now trains graduates- this is not today

Delphinium - this was not 'over 10 years ago'. I said that 10 years ago, dh started at the bottom, with no qualifications. WITHIN the last 10 years dh has worked his way up. His first promotion to retail management was 5 years ago, and GCSE's were not needed as he had already worked for them for 2 years (and had needed no GCSEs for entry level...you still don't need GCSEs for entry level).

He's moved company a couple of times in the past 5 years, from retail management role to retail management role, gradually working his way up the management chain. His lack of GCSEs hasn't held him back at all. His whole CV is based on his experience and demonstrable results over the past 5 years - he doesn't even have an 'education' section on his CV because for him, it's pointless.

There are surely always going to be people who have learning disabilities to varying degrees and to expect everyone to get Cs at GCSE in order to be able to get any sort of job seems unrealistic to me.Also counter productive to the Govt's own stated aim of getting people off benefits. If the most straightforward jobs get professionalised what hope have people without qualifications of getting them? It's consigning them to a life on benefits.

This government seems obsessed with the South Korean education system. But how do they treat disabled people over there?

Cs are the open door to so many things - esp in Maths and English. I spent a considerable amount of time last year helping a friend's daughter (who is dyslexic) both to understand the content of the Maths/English/Science curricula, and to help her revise. I think DS and I almost lived at their house over the GCSE weeks! It paid off though - she got the Cs she needed to do the college course she wanted. It's lovely seeing her happy and settled, and was so worth all that hard work. Some teenagers can do it with extra help - the teachers at school simply want them to give it everything they've got.

Sorry haven't read all the thread, but there are lots of areas where non-academic people can stand out. The important thing is passion

OP my friends dyslexic daughter left school one year ago, with a C at English Lit and no other significant passes. She is now doing a hairdressing apprenticeship. Her whole school life has been constant distress for my friend and her daughter. Of course, it's ideal to get 5 GCSE's but it isn't the end of the world if they don't. I don't know if you have already said this, but what do they plan to do after school?

I wasn't going to comment again, but I have been misrepresented, I was not talking about 5 yrs ago- I was not talking about last year- I have been talking about the new policy where the government have decided that all educational establishments can get everyone to a C grade - and if they don't they will have to keep going until they do!
No one knows how it is going to work out- it hasn't been done before.
My only message has been, that although the teacher has not phrased it in a positive helpful way, you are shooting the messenger - rather than the people sending the message.

I am sure that many people haven't bothered to read my links. In particular the one from FE colleges complaining and pointing out that if they haven't got the C grade at 16yrs then just more of the same is not the answer.
Instead of getting so caught up on those C grades they should concentrate on what they are good at IMO and the rest would come- as in the case of Teracotta's DH who was fortunate enough to finish school before the new policy.

Delphiniums, I have not "shot" anybody, although to be perfectly honest, if I have to read another post of yours about these links, I will be tempted!

I am not talking about one teacher but several, who are drumming it into the heads of my children they will never get a job, never access further education, never do anything other than work in a fast food restaurant (note there different points ergo different teachers) if they don't get a C.

This upset my children greatly.

It made them feel worthless.

It made them feel next year, when they will be seventeen, won't be an exciting time filled with driving lessons, new friends, more money through working part time, but endless days sat on the dole.

My son said 'I have nothing to live for really do I?'

My daughter said 'I just want to be clever and not claim the dole.'

They BOTH cried.

But ...

1. Well maybe they should knuckle down
2. Well I have a mortgage to pay
3. You're teacher bashing, we are not wrong to say these things it is the fault of the government.
4. It's a terrible profession to work in.
5. We are all stressed.

Points 6-30 I think have all been made by you and have been the same.

See what's happened? No sympathy whatsoever for two vulnerable sixteen year olds with sen but it's all about 'poor us, poor teachers.' Gets a bit grating to be honest! I wouldn't go on a thread about teacher stress and make MY points, you know.

I will repeat, I don't mind, and DS doesn't mind, and dd doesn't mind, continuing to try to improve their skills.

What this is about is insults and put downs and sneers and jeers from the poor stressed teachers, I haven't complained, I haven't said anything, but my word it has pissed me off!!!

I think that although I keep making the same point you are missing it!
I am in your side- I think it wrong!

Whatever I say you are still not going to get it so I will go back to silence.

(I just commented again because whether it was 20 yrs ago, 5 yrs ago, or last year is irrelevant - it is going to be different).

My only message has been, that although the teacher has not phrased it in a positive helpful way, you are shooting the messenger - rather than the people sending the message.

This.

When teachers strike against exactly this-if the parents agreed with them then we might stand a chance of doing something about it.

Have you actually spoken to the school about this? It isn't wrong for teachers to encourage pupils to aim high but the way they are putting the pressure on is not good for your DC. A quick phone call to tutor or head of year could easily sort this out, I lost count of the number of year 11s I dealt with in tears as a tutor because they were feeling over pressured or something similar to what you've described and in the vast majority of cases it took a cup of tea, tissue and a quick e.mail to the particular teacher and all was sorted. It does happen and teachers are under pressure and sometimes say things they shouldn't so speak to the school. If your DCs are coming home upset then it needs to be dealt with.

It will be my last comment (promise)!
You are right rollonthesummer- that is what needs to be done. It is too important to ignore and think it won't make a difference.

No, I'm sorry, I have little sympathy for the teachers in question. I'm a solicitor and ex social worker. I deal with teens and young adults regularly, many of them have additional needs or a mental illness or psychiatric problem and are often volatile. Both in this job and as a social worker, I haven't said anything demeaning or cruel to any child, despite being under a lot of stress and having a high workload . I get that teaching is a very, very hard and stressful position, but that doesn't give you a right to destroy someone's self esteem, ever.

Has your pay been directly linked to those children's exam results?

No, because I am not doing exams. It doesn't matter. If I said that they would be worthless if they were convicted and they would never find a job with a criminal conviction, to a teen, I would be horrified at myself, because it isn't true or 'fair'. It's just kicking them when they're down. If a kid is truly struggling and putting in a lot of effort, then destroying their self esteem will make the situation worse.

OneRailwayCharm, I feel your pain, but whats to do?

Firstly, this has been my experience - and my child is a lot younger! I did actually bring it to attention of Head of Year and was given similar justifictions - most to do with the way "teaching is nowadays" based on results blah blah. It really rubbed me up the wrong way too. I think the child here is forgotten in the whole equation. And although I think there are some wonderful teachers out there, am I right in getting the impression that some teachers, particularly those in positions of more authority, are becoming more and more arrogant by the day? Teachers may now be more measured by the State, but teachers "putting that responsibility" directly onto children is totally unfair.

George Orwell once wrote that "Education has become the new God" and you could replace that now with "exam results have become the new God". Idolatry is always a dangerous thing, especially when it is so completely misplaced.

Exam results. Whatever. Most education in my opinion could end by age 14. Unless you're gonna be an engineer, scientist, a doctor or academic. Its heart-breaking and unnecessary if its true that young people are having such awful experiences at school because of this current obsession with grades - though a lot of it is probably fuelled by parents as well.

What can one do, OneRailway? Just keep driving home its more important to find something you want to do in life than get a few bits of paper. Lots of people have lots of bits of paper and it hasn't particularly helped them or made a difference in their lives. And appreciate our children for the people they are. That's what counts.

all we have heard is how they have to get their GCSEs, their lives will be ruined if they don't, they will never get to college and never get a good job

I suspect this is a teenage interpretation of what has been said. I would imagine the teacher has said (probably more than once)

GCSEs are very important
If you get GCSEs you can go to college
If you get GCSEs, you can get a good job

and the DC have flipped it up and come up with this.

If the teachers said that GCSEs were not important and it really didn't matter either way what their results were, nobody would bother doing any work.

OP, if you are actually concerned that the teacher has really told them their lives would be ruined using those exact words, then make an appointment to see the head of year. I suspect someone, somewhere is exaggerating...

onarailwaytrain I have read a few posts but haven't had time to read the whole thread, sorry. But looking at your original post, can i say I am so sorry your children are being made to feel like this. My year 5 dyslexic daughter is really struggling at school and it is very sad and very frustrating. Homework is a nightmare and I feel very frustrated by it. I have tried to communicate with teachers, hard as school is involved with Ofsted and that adds to all the stress!

our relatively new SENco is pretty good and I am just trying to get as much help and support from her. I have found some positive stuff on line about how well dyslexics can do, and when DD is older I will share it with her. Luckily, she loves art and craft and is very bright so I just try and nurture what she is good at.

I totally agree it is wrong for teachers to send these negative messages to our children. Academic achievement is not something all kids will be able to do well at it and it is false and unhelpful to suggest with enough input all children will be able to achieve the same or similar.

I hope you find some support in your school and can really encourage your kids to find other areas they are good at or to build on those existing areas. And so sorry I have not had time to read all comments so apologies if you have mention other areas where your kids are achieving.

My attitude thatI hope to pass to my son is to make clear that of course this set of exams will not actually define him to the end of his days, and getting enough grades of high enough quality in the right subjects at this point in life will not actually be relevent for most future decisions and plans.

Nevertheless, it is a one-shot chance to open up opportunities that are far more difficult to access later and he should aim as high as he can. It isnt a great system, but it is the system so you have to play it to gain whatever advantage you can.

Yanbu

Gosh I remember the pressure when I was 16 to get amazing GCSE results :( you are made to feel if you get anything below a C you are a failure. I remember crying over the pressure too.

My DH didn't get 5 A-C's and he always thought/and his parents thought he wasn't academic. Turns out he was a late bloomer, he is never going to be good as exams but he now runs his own business. It's hard but he had caught up with all the maths and English he needs. He still had horrible memories of school and his confidence has taken 15 years to recover. (His academic brother who has loads of degrees/masters is long term unemployed due to laziness)

Keep encouraging your children, they will be ok, I know it's frustrating that they have lost confidence and it will take time to build it up again but with your/perhaps future partners support, they will be ok.

Teachers should never tell a child they'll fail, that is totally fatal, they should just say if they work hard and their results are good, then they may have more choice, it should be framed positively!

My ds is entirely dependent on the teacher believing in him. If a teacher is dismissive or very negative my ds feels stupid and starts to give up. This term I've written to a particularly detention happy young Biology teacher who is so impatient and seems to have no emotional intelligence. I told him that ds was very low in confidence, since then the teacher has backed off a little and ds is starting to feel less defeated. The same with ds's IT teacher, he was yelling at ds for not keeping up and that was just making him panic and close down and then not sleep the night before lessons and say 'I'm not clever enough, I can't do it etc.' So I wrote a really polite letter (cc to Form Tutor) saying how grateful I would be if the teacher would be patient with my ds as his confidence was very low and how he may need more time to grasp things. I got a lovely letter back, he spoke to ds, he asked him to come to IT clinic, ds mastered a couple of things he didn't understand, now ds is FINE with IT.
But it needed the intervention of someone who cares for the child and sees how he isn't being stupid or obstinate, he is frightened, daunted, overwhelmed, Undermined. One intervention and the teacher is now treating him like a person not an irritation.

Also, his wonderful form teacher sat down with ds and told him he was bright, he was good enough, he needed to relax and believe in himself and whenever he was overwhelmed to come and tell the tutor.
Marvellous man, big heart, very emotionally intelligent etc etc All Hail the Teacher with Life Experience!

These young ones are so fearful to impress the Leadership Team they can end up yelling at these young lads like they are in the Marines! Not Appropriate! Not Effective! Not Productive educationally!

But imd always write a good letter that is as BRIEf as possible but full of element like this:

Support for the school
Request for advice
Assertion of child's particularly sensitivity
Thanking staff for patience
Praising whatever can be found to praise
Acknowledging the size of classes and how busy they are

Treat a teacher with respect and they will get behind you nine times out of ten.
Few of us have even an inkling of how hard it is to teach.