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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think pre-paid benefits cards are a stigmatizing, punitive scheme?

464 replies

ArsenicFaceCream · 29/09/2014 16:22

Just announced at the Conservative Party conference.

They will initially be 'voluntary' for claimants with addiction issues, apparently.

But of course the intention is to roll it out.

Universal Credit is going national in February so this could get interesting, given that UC will be paid to working claimants as well as those not working.

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joanofarchitrave · 30/09/2014 11:28

Steeleye, shall you and I set up a health and employment insurance company for those who are uninsurable by other companies?

It's much needed, lots of people are uninsurable, including my husband.

Oh, except we'd probably go bankrupt. Because my husband did indeed lose his job due to his disability and really is at high risk of suicide or early death. So any sensible insurance company won't touch him.

joanofarchitrave · 30/09/2014 11:31

I wouldn't believe the time of day from IDS, and I used to think he was all right in his way. Where the fuck is Rachel Reeves? Good chance for her to distance herself from New Labour?

QueenTilly · 30/09/2014 11:32

Grin Always happens, mrsjay. After you press post message, you think, oh hang on, that's...

Don't feel bad- you're not exactly claiming the DSS still sends out giros for new cookers!

ShadowsShadowsEverywhere · 30/09/2014 11:33

This makes me feel sick with dread.

I fled DV. I have two small children. I have a plan to study full time with the OU when my youngest is old enough to qualify for the 15 hours free childcare, but until then I'm relying on benefits. I buy all my food including meat at the local market and pick up bags of pasta, rice etc from whichever shop has them cheapest. I've gone from spending £70 a week in tescos to spending £38 for a full shop including nappies, wipes, gallons of milk and lots of lovely fresh produce. This frees up my budget so that I can afford heating over the winter (I'm asthmatic and really can't cope with damp cold unheated houses in winter), I have money in the bank for when white goods breath their last or my daughter suddenly outgrows everything and goes up two shoe sizes etc.

I would be fucked. I'd have to go back to shopping in big supermarkets, not having enough money for everyone to have new shoes at the same time regardless of whether they were falling apart, going back to doing 5 mile walks into town with a 1 and 3yo to reduce the amount spent on public transport etc.

I remember being sat upstairs sobbing when I was still with my ex because I didn't know how I'd cope if I left. But when I went into refuge and the support worker talked me through everything I was entitled to, this fantastic safety net, I was so relieved because I knew we would be alright. Now that safety net is, thread by thread, being pulled apart. I can feel it unravelling and it's terrifying. DS is coming up to 18mo, so I've got a year until he can start nursery and I can start studying. My money will come from student finance then and only a few small top ups rather than all my income being state benefits. So I should just about be ok. But what about all the other thousands of women needing that safety net after me?

I think half the issue is detachment. The people frothed up about "scroungers" have never set foot in a women's refuge and listened to the residents stories, I'd bet my best hat on it. They've not stopped and spoken to these "women who have babies just to get free money". These "people claiming a dodgy hip means they can't work". They read the daily mail and decide to treat vast swathes of the population as lesser human beings, to be shamed and humiliated into desperately clawing for work, to be punished for their circumstances.

It's vile. And utterly utterly terrifying. And as someone who studied the rise of the Third Reich in great depth, I can see alarming parallels, especially with regards to propoganda and media. It wouldn't be a great leap at all from where we are now, to workhouses, camps and the such. People can't see it, don't want to see it, and will call me hysterical. But in five years, maybe ten, if this continues juggernauting along this road, people will be looking back and saying "we had no idea at the time what would happen just a few years later, but looking back now I can see the signs".

No one will act though. Words on a screen, on a thread on a forum, on the vast internet. The general public need to unite and protest and fight this, but not enough of us will speak out.

Hexu2 · 30/09/2014 11:40

People with addictions will find ways round it because they are driven by their addictions - and there are other people who will operate black markets or even inventive ways round what ever system is put in to further exploit these addicts.

For everyone else - it would assume that people on benefits are stupid and therefore incapable of making rational decisions.

Such decisions would include paying few pence more at at a local shop rather than nearly 5 in transport - or skimming few pounds of weekly shop to put towards something not covered - like child trips, clubs or clothes.

It also means bigger companies that join such a scheme have potential to exploit people by pocketing any left over change or limiting it to nearly out of date stock or even ensuring people on the scheme have to travel to them ignoring cheaper shops and travel costs.

I really wish they'd do some evidence based policy work - see what actually works not rely on assumptions about situations and people or ignore facts that similar schemas have failed and been scrapped or caused huge problems.

Hexu2 · 30/09/2014 11:44

I think it could have some positives - if it stops some families living off takeaway rather than cooking.

Would it actually do that though - or would it mean more reliance on quick supermarket meals or ven cheap white bread and sandwiches ?

Wouldn't cookery classes - and improved access to cheap fruit and veg be more effective?

At very least some research into most effective interventions before roll out would surely be a good idea?

Mrsjayy · 30/09/2014 11:51

I really think this is tory hot air it is a terrifying thought though being dictated to what you can and can't spend money on
. It was terrible when we were on benefit was family credits back then and I felt judged and tutted at when I was in the post office with my book I can also remember the social security man coming round when I was a child single parent mum working 5 hours cleaning and getting ss my mum hated it there were curtain twitchers in our street it was seen as shameful .

Mrsjayy · 30/09/2014 11:53

Parents with under5s if they are on benefits get healthy start vouchers they can buy veg and fruit but I don't think its much is it ?

ClapHandsIfYouBelieveInFatties · 30/09/2014 11:55

MrsJayy we get working tax credits and do you know I HATE it. I work part time and DH full....I want to get off them entirely. If I can get to a point where I am earning 100 more a week I will fuck them off totally.

I hate being "beholden" and relying on something which they could take away.

Mrsjayy · 30/09/2014 11:59

It is silly to feel judged and hate benefits as they are there as a safety net for people

QueenTilly · 30/09/2014 12:01

Under 4. We used to be entitled to them. In an odd way, I was relieved when we weren't, simply because I found it so stressful trying to get value for money out of each £3.10 voucher. Grin I could only use them in the main supermarkets, not the market-store in the town centre, and I remember dashing back to get an extra couple of carrots, once of twice.

There was also the time the cashier insisted they couldn't be redeemed on frozen veg. Hmm It was plain peas!

We ate a hell of a lot of veg, though. Grin

Laquitar · 30/09/2014 12:17

So will they have to go to a certain supermarket and shop with their card, let them keep the change AND will be served by another of their kind who will be working there for free, yes?

And i bet next it will be only 'healthy food' allowed (see beans) for their own good of course.

But can someone explain me why is this discussed on the internet and there is nothing in the streets? Or is there something organised.
It just makes me more angry that some people believe that it is for a good reason and others just not bother.

ArsenicFaceCream · 30/09/2014 12:18

I really think this is tory hot air

No. They'll do it. And they'll roll it right out.

It's a crowd pleaser; A vote winner; Dog whistle politics.

The public have been softened up for this for years; The voting public.

The poorest groups, who will be horribly, viciously affected, don't vote much.

Jeering, scrounger-hating middle england vote. Pensioners vote and they have been exempted from all these swinging changes.

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ArsenicFaceCream · 30/09/2014 12:21

But can someone explain me why is this discussed on the internet and there is nothing in the streets? Or is there something organised.

I don't know Laq

What I do know, is that if the safety net is being unravelled this fast (benefit cap coming down to £23k and benefit freezes included) then the minimum wage MUST go up.

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Thefishewife · 30/09/2014 12:23

poster Laquitar

If they don't like it they can always get a job

I was always brought up not complain when I get something for nothing

My husband wakes a 5 each morning and comes home often at 10 or 11 is on call most weekends can not get summer off and will be working Christmas Day for some who doesn't or won't work yo moan someone's asking them spend his money on what it's for food, bills and clothing for their kids

Cry me a frigging river

DaughterDilemma · 30/09/2014 12:26

It wouldn't be a great leap at all from where we are now, to workhouses, camps and the such.

Workfare was effectively forced labour and it took an 18 year old girl to take the government to court to prove it was so.

The Tories are truly bonkers, they seem to have a far right extreme who blame the victims on their policies for the country's ills. It is mass victim blaming.

Thefishewife · 30/09/2014 12:27

poster ArsenicFaceCream

Oh dear 23k don't you know

Some people do a days work and don't get that much many people have

You do a bloody days work then you tell me 23k is not enough when your loafing of the good will of other you say thank you and be bloody lucky it's not less

OnlyLovers · 30/09/2014 12:29

YANBU. It's a fucking disgrace. I thought they despised the left wing for wanting a nanny state?

If they don't like it they can always get a job

Thanks for the LULZ, fishewife. Funniest thing I've heard yet this week.

ArsenicFaceCream · 30/09/2014 12:29

I'm not unemployed fishwife Hmm

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DaughterDilemma · 30/09/2014 12:30

But can someone explain me why is this discussed on the internet and there is nothing in the streets?

Because it's easier to discuss it on the net, we feel we are doing something and get it off our chests. Then we go out and face the world. In Hong Kong they organise protests online, in the UK we analyse online. I went on a protest recently, it felt odd and I was very nervous. Considering it was my right to do this I do question how brainwashed we all are.

Of course when you are older, have more responsibility you are less likely to protest and put yourself effectively at risk.

gobbynorthernbird · 30/09/2014 12:30

If they don't like it they can always get a job

I faint when I change position (go from lying to sitting, or sitting to standing). Some days my blood pressure is so low, I can't move to even go to the loo. I soil myself, vomit numerous times each day, lose my eyesight and hearing on a regular basis, have concentration and memory problems, choke often as the mechanism at the back of my throat doesn't work to close my windpipe, etc. What job do you think I should get?

Laquitar · 30/09/2014 12:31

Fishwife are you serious? You sound lovely.

I do get up at 5 am for work and million others do. Funny i dont see that i work for someone who doesnt want yo work and who should be punished.

PausingFlatly · 30/09/2014 12:35

Thefishewife, shouldn't you get a job yourself rather than leave your poor DH to do hours like that?

ArsenicFaceCream · 30/09/2014 12:36

But can someone explain me why is this discussed on the internet and there is nothing in the streets?

It hasn't really made the news agenda either. Possibly because Tory HQ haven't released much policy detail.

Which is interesting for a scheme which went to trial stage yesterday...

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GratefulHead · 30/09/2014 12:40

yet again another of the "they can just get a job" brigade.

I work...a hard physical job which is low paid and so I get some benefits too.

I also go home and care for my autistic child...work fits around that.

and I would be highly pissed off if I was told I had to have one of these cards.