Re DS dunking child at swimming

[sezamcgregor]

DS is Y2. They are going swimming with school. It's on Thursday afternoons. There are 24 in his class.

The class is known to be "lively" with "lots of big characters". School have also identified Thursday and Friday afternoons to be hard work as children are becoming tired and harder to keep concentration.

So, children split into two groups of 12:

Group A - Non swimmers, armbands on in shallow end, swimming teacher plus two school staff members

Group B - Swimmers (can swim without armbands) at the deep end, swimming teacher

Two incidents occur towards the end of the lesson, one of which is DS pulling a child under the water as he over took her.

Pulled over by Head Teacher today and put forward my mitigation that a) there was one person to 12 children who school know can be challenging b) it was Thursday afternoon which school know is a difficult time slot.

HT totally dismissed my comments.

She said that she will also be speaking to the swimming instructor as she should have alerted school staff earlier that she could not cope with the group. (Surely school staff would have noticed if she were not coping and offered to help??)

DS is missing next week's swim as a consequence - which is fine. I have no problem with that and agree that there should be a consequence.

But AIBU to think that she needs to look at the whole picture? I have a kind of "well, what did they expect to happen" view of it

I think pushing another child in the pool is equally 'as bad' as dunking, tbh.

Home time for me guys!

Thank you for everyone who's posted helpful posts - it's made me think about things from different angles.

To everyone else - you'll never know how easy your lives are because your children do not have additional needs and are "normal". I hope that you are grateful for that, because you had ought to be. I'd not wish this lifestyle on anybody.

and off I go to the nest of vipers that is the playground mums that are already stood talking about me and my unruly DS....

I will reserve my right to ask questions, thank you Nicky, you total charmer .

"I think pushing another child in the pool is equally 'as bad' as dunking, tbh."

It's not.

a. Child falls into water and floats/swims back up.

b. Child gets pulled under water unexpectedly and can aspire water into her lungs. She can drown. She can develop a fear of water that may stay with her all her life (like the MNer downthread).

I don't think they are similar in gravity, at all. One is a discipline problem. The other is very dangerous and likely to create long-term problems.

You're lucky he didn't drown her OP.

I think the answer to your DS's problems lie with you your ds and your partner, not in the hands of the school.

I think you have to be a parent to this child, and not blame everyone else for his appalling and dangerous behaviour.

I'm noticing you are persistently resistant to taking the responsibility or blame here, wanting to shift it to the school, to the swimming instructor, to the 'silly group' your ds was in etc etc, yadda yadda, and I wonder why this is so.

Every other parent on this thread has admonished you, and suggested yo take a more active role in socialising your child, and yet you resist the message. Why?

Thank you

How about you stop haranguing the OP and start acknowledging and assimilating the info she's providing instead of sweeping her "excuses" aside. You've been at her throughout the thread expressing incredulity at the terrible way she's dealing with this but offering no useful advice whatsoever. Threads not about you getting to be outraged. With the extra information given you'd think people might start being supportive wouldn't you? Instead of telling her off.

i agree with verity and others

i would expect a ban for this, not just a week off

YABVVVU....it's like your child can do no wrong. Your child behaved like a yob and dangerously indeed and it will escalate and continue until you deal with it.

Some absolute scally of a child (I know this because he's in court news every week now in his 30s, not suggesting yours will be too because I hope you'll see sense from this thread) did this to me in the 1990s and this has given me anxiety about putting my head under water ever since.

I told HT that DS can promise whatever he likes, what he needs is supervision. Really? You really said that? Do you not think your attitude is even a teensy bit problematic?

No - I sympathise totally with the OP. This is quite descriptive of one of my DGC. They will promise the world, be given consequences if they don't follow through and for whatever reason they cannot do it.

It isn't always quite as straightforward as many on here would like to think.

Struggling to do what he's told is NOT additional or special needs FFS. That's called bad behaviour.

Honestly. Good bit of drip feeding OP.

If this child has additional needs and the OP had repeatedly referred to this then her asking for additional supervision for him is the responsible and correct thing to do. I don't understand why that's so hard to understand. She obviously knows what he needs and is seeking help via doctors etc to get it, she is asking for help with her child. I've been in that no mans land when your child is being dismissed as a "yobbo" and no one will listen. It happened to my child for three years. He was eventually diagnosed with autism, dyspraxia and hypermobility. For three years though he was that naughty kid and I was a shit Mum. Felt great

If he can't behave then he shouldn't be put in a situation where he is a risk to other children.

No he should be supported so that doesn't happen.

I feel that on the whole, he is currently getting a lot of negative feedback from school at the moment when, although he needs boundaries and discipline, also needs praise and building up, the same as every other child does.

OP, does your ds have an IEP (or whatever they are now calling them this year - I can't be arsed to go upstairs to get ds's to read the title ) ?

If so, see if this type of behaviour issue is being addressed by it. If not, ring the Senco and ask to have a meeting to discuss it and amend it.

If he doesn't have one, ring the Senco and ask for a meeting to discuss these issues and draw one up.

Not quite sure why you bothered to pick out my post and insult me Nicki, but I think my questions are perfectly fair. I see that you are defensive, but I don't think there's any call to swear at me. But I'm old-fashioned like that.

Anyway, OP has not once acknowledged that her son was at fault, nor has she told him off and encouraged better behaviour. He may have SN. Does that mean his actions are ok? Or that he shouldn't be taught the correct way to behave? He clearly needs extra help, perhaps the school should be doing more, but her attitude is massively unhelpful.

I noticed you because despite lengthy explanations from OP your response was "excuses aside". I thought that was particularly undermining of everything she was trying to say and throughout you've just repeated your shock at the child's behaviour and the OP's response to it without offering anything useful. It stood out.

Grey- I agree with you. 'What do you expect?' attitude is not a constructive or positive attitude looking to make life better for anyone.

Personally I feel the term 'additional needs' is in danger of being over used as an excuse for simple bad behaviour.

I have a lot of sympathy for you OP. My DS is Y2 and in a class with 'lots of big characters'. One in particular sounds a lot like your son. He is perhaps worse but as he hasn't been assessed or diagnosed with anything there is no additional support to be had- the school hasn't the resources. This results in a massively disrupted class especially when he is egged on by some of the others.
I think I would keep Ds off if I discovered they were going swimming with a ratio of 12 : 1 because it would be obvious that something would happen. Thing is I'm not sure what the school could do- presumably they didn't want to leave him out, but didn't have the extra resources to 'police' him. therefore they took a chance. Would you rather you'd been given the option for him to sit it out? Because extra resources for your child are not going to be forthcoming until he has been statemented or whatever it's called now.

Yes but bebe your response is "well he shouldn't be there" rather than offering any advice or responding at all to the possibility that this child has AN. Can I ask what your general thoughts are on inclusion for children with additional needs in mainstream schools?

Anyway, OP has not once acknowledged that her son was at fault, nor has she told him off and encouraged better behaviour.

I will explain consequences and discuss it with him (and make sure he knows it is not acceptable behaviour) but I'm not shouting at him again.

I don't think he should be shouted at again either. It doesn't work.
(And I speak as a shouter myself. Total waste of energy).

op posts in aibu
asks if she is being unreasonable to think kids will misbehave on a thursday afternoon and attempting to drown another child is what they should have expected

what kind of response is to be expected to that??

If the school had predicted he would behave like this so decided he shouldn't be allowed to swim with his class would that have been fine by you?

But the thread has evolved from that hasn't it? She's actually been referred to a paediatrician for her child's issues (a monumental achievement in itself, getting a referral in some areas) it's clear there's more going on but when she tries to explain posters are continuing to attack her and brushing aside the information she's giving.

op posts in aibu asks if she is being unreasonable to think kids will misbehave on a thursday afternoon and attempting to drown another child is what they should have expected what kind of response is to be expected to that??

Depends on whether you've read all the OP's posts or not.

My issue with ratios is that both group has 12 children. Though the ones that still have armbands and cannot swim without them have a swimming instructor and 2 members of staff from school whereas the group with children that can swim without armbands are in the deep end with only the swimming instructor. Surely it would make better sense to assign one member of school staff to each group?

The reason why I had not discussed it with DS was because I wanted to do it properly and not just be snatching a few minutes. I want to make sure that he understands and I'm pleased that he does.

We have agreed that when he goes to swimming after school on Tuesdays he needs to show his teacher that he is water safe. If he cannot exhibit sensible behaviour at the pool side, I will have to tell school and he will not then be able to go with school.

I'm going to speak to his Tuesday teacher and discuss this approach. If I get the opportunity I may also pop in and see the Thursday teacher but don't want to be talking about it in front of DS.

For those of you that have asked about an IEP - I usually have one a term but when I asked HT last week it has not been done yet. I get no say in what goes on it though.