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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Re DS dunking child at swimming

340 replies

sezamcgregor · 26/09/2014 11:01

DS is Y2. They are going swimming with school. It's on Thursday afternoons. There are 24 in his class.

The class is known to be "lively" with "lots of big characters". School have also identified Thursday and Friday afternoons to be hard work as children are becoming tired and harder to keep concentration.

So, children split into two groups of 12:

Group A - Non swimmers, armbands on in shallow end, swimming teacher plus two school staff members

Group B - Swimmers (can swim without armbands) at the deep end, swimming teacher

Two incidents occur towards the end of the lesson, one of which is DS pulling a child under the water as he over took her.

Pulled over by Head Teacher today and put forward my mitigation that a) there was one person to 12 children who school know can be challenging b) it was Thursday afternoon which school know is a difficult time slot.

HT totally dismissed my comments.

She said that she will also be speaking to the swimming instructor as she should have alerted school staff earlier that she could not cope with the group. (Surely school staff would have noticed if she were not coping and offered to help??)

DS is missing next week's swim as a consequence - which is fine. I have no problem with that and agree that there should be a consequence.

But AIBU to think that she needs to look at the whole picture? I have a kind of "well, what did they expect to happen" view of it

OP posts:
Original poster
sezamcgregor · 26/09/2014 14:18

SDT - Perhaps you are right. By the look of exasperation she looked although she knew what I meant though.

OP posts:
Original poster
sezamcgregor · 26/09/2014 14:21

MrsMcColl - sorry to clarify, that is the school's phrasing rather than saying there are some naughty fuckers in the class, of course, one of which is my DS and I am jumping through all sorts of hoops to take steps to 1. improving his behaviour and 2. getting to the bottom of why he can't self-regulate and acts on impulse so much of the time.

OP posts:
lljkk · 26/09/2014 14:22

(Every time I swear I won't put head above the parapet, I go & blow it...)

The child is 6yo & six-year-olds do daft things. There's a reason why they are below the age of criminal responsibility. They don't and can't understand many dangers at all. This is why lifeguards are present and they are supervised by adults. OP is getting a ridiculously hard time from other posters.

I also have a difficult child with loads of behaviour problems that don't earn a diagnosis, just lots of sneering attitudes from teachers & other parents. It's very difficult to be proactive when you can't begin to understand your own child's behaviour problems.

Only part I don't understand is why OP had to raise mitigating factors with HT. Just accept it was a risky thing to do, gently remind your child why he shouldn't repeat, let school deal with it & move on.

I think real source of OP's problem with this situation is her not understanding why her child is how he is. I'm so sorry you haven't found any compassion here. Flowers

plantsitter · 26/09/2014 14:22

I would be concerned to hear about a swimming lesson in which two potentially dangerous incidents took place because behaviour wasn't being properly controlled. Yes of course your son needs a telling off but they should not be teaching swimming lessons unless they have the resources to assert complete control. The consequences could be tragic.

If I were you OP I would be pulling him out of school swimming lessons as I'd be worried about a) his safety in the water and b) the consequences for him if he did something similar and the child involved was hurt.

Yes, in the long term his behaviour is your responsibility but in the short term more important is keeping him and his classmates safe.

Rocadaboyce · 26/09/2014 14:26

The voice of reason lljk.

Original poster
sezamcgregor · 26/09/2014 14:29

lljkk - I think that it is because I think that leaving DS with 11 other children and 1 adult is a Bad Idea. Of course, she thinks that is is fine, but I do disagree.

It wasn't that they were behaving really well and then DS acted completely out of the blue - these children were allowed to become silly, to splash and be so noisy that they could not hear their instructor telling them to stop, they were able to get so excited that one boy pushed another into the pool and DS pulled a girl under the water.

I do accept that it might not have been the wisest thing to do, but she is always talking down to me in her rude tones and I wasn't going to submit to her this morning.

OP posts:
differentnameforthis · 26/09/2014 14:29

HT totally dismissed my comments. Good, because there are no mitigating factors for what he. The fact that your ds pulled a kid under the water is NOTHING to do with what staff were on duty at the time, and all to do with your sons lack of self control & water danger awareness.

And missing one lesson isn't enough, my child would not be let back in the pool if she was so unpredictable & badly behaved.

For the safety of others, I think he needs to miss swimming until he is mature enough to understand the danger of what he did & behave MUCH better.

Sunna · 26/09/2014 14:31

Maybe the school doesn't have a spare member of staff available. Why should other children lose out on their TA/teacher because your son can't do as he is told?

Are you reinforcing how dangerous his behaviour was? I've asked before but I'll ask again, are you going to get him to apologise?

Maybe you should ask to have him withdrawn from swimming if you think he will not behave. It isn't fair on the other DCs or safe.

Bambambini · 26/09/2014 14:33

Agree with lljkk. Some kids do struggle with this kind of thing. Mine went through a very aggressive phase when he was a toddler. He eventually outgrew it and is very calm and gentle now. Sometimes it isn't always down to bad parenting etc and just sorting your child out. I think some have possibly been very harsh - the Op might be a crap parent but again she very well might not be.

Original poster
sezamcgregor · 26/09/2014 14:34

Sunna - But it isn't just my DS, it's other children too. The swimming teacher told me the group was being silly and noisy, not just DS and the other boy.

OP posts:
miaowmix · 26/09/2014 14:34

Does your son understand what he did was wrong? I am just baffled as to why you wouldn't have had a serious conversation with him about this incident. Especially if he has behavioural issues, actually, surely he needs to be taught good behaviour as it clearly doesn't come naturally for him.

MindReader · 26/09/2014 14:36

Yes, obviously the whole session was somewhat 'out of control' if another child could push yet another child into the pool (potentially even more dangerous than briefly pulling under water).

The school and pool need to double check ALL the children are safe and under control.

Also - the OP needs to think about what steps to take whilst school/nhs are looking into whether her son has SN which affect his ability to control himself when overstimulated. Probably either pulling him out of swimming full stop or being there yourself is the answer, temporarily.

It doesn't sound as though the HT and you are 'on the same page', sadly.

Sunna · 26/09/2014 14:36

It was your DS who pulled another child under the water. Until you can see how unacceptable this is then no one can help you. Is he going to apologise?

CoteDAzur · 26/09/2014 14:38

"they were able to get so excited that one boy pushed another into the pool and DS pulled a girl under the water."

Do you think the two incidents are connected? That your DS would not have pulled a girl underwater if that boy had not pushed another boy into the water? I'm struggling to see your logic here.

Original poster
sezamcgregor · 26/09/2014 14:43

It doesn't help that my muti-agency team has just changed as SureStart are making sure they only have priority cases, which DS is not.

We have an appointment next Thursday with the Paediatrician which is the next step having seen the school health doctor several times this year, she referred him in July so we'll see what he says on Thursday.

OP posts:
nomdemere · 26/09/2014 14:45

Actually, OP, having read your last post, I think you have a point. A swimming lesson should never become rowdy. At the very first signs of rowdiness it should be brought under control - if necessary by getting all the kids out of the water.

Did the swimming teacher say that the kids were all making so much noise they couldn't hear her? If she did, then there is clearly a problem and either smaller groups or additional supervisors are needed.

I agree that your DS is at fault for what he did, and that the general rowdiness isn't a get-out-of-jail-free card for him. But I also agree that it sounds like the arrangements for this lesson are not good enough.

But I think you need to separate the two things - not excuse your DS's behaviour because 'they were allowed to become so excited'.

myotherusernameisbetter · 26/09/2014 14:47

How does he behave out of school?

How does he usually behave in the swimming pool?

Does he attend lessons out of school, how does he bahave there?

All factors that need to be considered.

Original poster
sezamcgregor · 26/09/2014 14:48

Cote - I'm saying that it wasn't just my DS, it was not an isolated incident. The swimming teacher told me that both incidents happened towards the end of the lesson as the children had become progressively silly through the lesson.

OP posts:
NickiFury · 26/09/2014 14:50

It takes so long Sez Sad I'm sorry you are going through this. Please go over to the SN Board. PM me if you want to. I've been through this process TWICE. It does get easier. If you are near me in the UK I might be able to give you some insight into the process.

Original poster
sezamcgregor · 26/09/2014 14:51

Nom - I do not excuse DS's behaviour, but at other times when he goes that step further (though not as serious as this) DS can see when he is getting told off for his behaviour and that the other children involved do not as their behaviour was not as bad.

I feel that on the whole, he is currently getting a lot of negative feedback from school at the moment when, although he needs boundaries and discipline, also needs praise and building up, the same as every other child does.

OP posts:
Ionacat · 26/09/2014 14:53

The chances are all sorts of things might have happened especially if there was another incident too. They may well have adjusted the risk assessment etc. talked to the swimming teacher and worked out a way forward. The head might well have talked to the other members of staff too but these won't be shared with you.
The problem would have been you trying to put forward mitigating circumstances which would have put her back up. It certainly does mine, when I've had to phone a parent about an incident as it sounds like they are making excuses when really there weren't any.
I suggest that you ask to speak to the SENCO about help, support and possible assessment, or ask for a meeting with head and class teacher since they both teach your DS and work out a way forward with his behaviour in class. It would be good to have the SENCO there too and take the approach what can you do to support the school to be proactive about it.

miaowmix · 26/09/2014 14:55

excuses aside though, does your son understand what he has done in this case is so wrong?

Eva50 · 26/09/2014 14:55

His behaviour sounds very much like that of my ds1 at that age. If I had a pound for every play date, party and event we left early due to his behaviour and the number of times there was an "incident" at school I would have had enough to employ a 1:1. Fortunately his school doesn't do swimming until P6 by which time he had an ADHD diagnosis, was on medication and had begun to be less impulsive.

I would not be happy with a ratio of 1 teacher to 12 children of that age in the deep end of a swimming pool. Most swimming pools insist on 1:1 or 1:2 at that age for a parent taking them, even in a shallow toddler pool.

My ds had very little extra support in school but if there was a trip out or they were doing something that involved more supervision then I was often asked to help. I also worked but could juggle my hours a bit. Could you take time off for his next swimming lesson to help or could your Mum.

I think you need to push the school for further assessment for your ds as it doesn't sound as if his needs or the needs of the other children are being met.

NickiFury · 26/09/2014 14:58

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CoteDAzur · 26/09/2014 14:58

"I'm saying that it wasn't just my DS, it was not an isolated incident."

Was there another child pulling others under water? No? Then it was just your DS.

Pushing another child (who can swim) in the pool is a joke, not a seriously dangerous incident. I'm sure that boy was told off as well, but what your DS did is in an entirely different league. In badly managed classes, children can get noisy, unruly, splash around etc. What they don't do is pull others under the water because they would know that never, under no circumstances, do you pull someone else under the water. Especially another child who is in all likelihood not a strong swimmer at the age of 6.

You must deal with this harshly. There need to be consequences. And he needs to apologise to that girl (a written card is a good idea). Your DS must be made to understand that he cannot ever do it again, regardless of number of teachers, day of the week, etc.