To think we should not get involving in bombing Syria / Iraq

[WetAugust]

Enough is enough.

You cannot change an idealogy with bombs dropped from 10,000 feet.

We have no end game. Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya are still in a mess from our last efforts at 'helping'.

We have spent decades lending support, training etc to neighbouring oil rich States that are very well equipped with the latest in war machinery. Why have all that kit if they never intend to use it and are content to leave the fighting to other powers?

This is essentially a civil war driven by religious hatred and weak, cynical governemnets in Iraq and Syria.

If there really is this threat to us in the Uk let's spend some of this money we have so readily for war and beef up our entry and exit points to the country.

I don't want us to take part in any more wars in the Middle East

ISIS have been burying women and children alive. I think to take the "Not my problem mate" approach is frankly immoral. Not least because it was us who destabilised Iraq in the first place.

That's not to say I think war is automatically the solution. I dunno what else is tho? Probably why I'm not the foreign minister tbh.

It won't matter if we "beef up security" if ISIS are murdering thousands.

Who will you expect to help us when the ISIS representatives already in the UK start to respond to the calls for violence against non-muslims?

War isn't a good first-choice. Nobody wants more death, or destruction. But there are very limited ways of dealing with an evil organisation, and I can't see them sitting down to discuss this logically. When they are beheading UK nationals, and inciting UK muslims to murder here, action has to be taken.

I abhor violence. It's awful.

But someone needs to step in, and why does it always have to be America? We, as a country, have interfered with the politics of nearly every single country in the world at some point in the last 500 years. We can't just run away now, like a bad parent who washes their hands when their teenager starts torching public toilets.

We have a sizeable British Muslim population here, the majority of whom are normal people who cook dinners and help their kids fix bikes. Just people. We could do worse than to ask for their help in an intervention. Nine of the local Muslims like what their faith has become an international symbol of.

Bombing in Syria will never be the answer. Only last year, Cameron went to the Commons asking for support to bomb Syrian Government forces. Then we armed/assisted Syrian rebels. Now we want to bomb the rebels (IS and Al Nusra both fight against the Syrian Government). How many arms that were provided by the West to "moderate" Syrian rebels have now ended up in the hands of IS and Al Qaeda?

The more we and other states meddle in Syria, the more we draw out and worsen the conflict.

YANBU our 'place on the world stage' is one of the things I really detest about this country, it's simply empire building by another name, and causes more problems for the resource-rich countries that we 'help' than it solves.

I believe that these uprisings were funded by the west with the full knowledge of what the outcome would be. It makes it easier to attack and steal from a country if it's run by terrorists.

I do respect people who don't want us to be involved in any more wars in the Middle East.

But this is not some totally different war that has nothing to do with us. This is a direct result of a war that we started, it's only happening because of us. I agree it's immoral to simply walk away and let thousands of people be slaughtered because we've decided we're over it now.

Regional powers are in fact involved in the current bombing missions, but they do not have near the capabilities that we do for something this size.

I do have mixed feelings about this but it's important to remember that there are no good options. Non-military strategies haven't worked and doing nothing will just let ISIS get more powerful. So whatever we do, things are likely to be bad. There is no 'magic solution' that we just haven't worked out yet.

As I'd equate ISIS to the 3rd Reich I think YABU. Agree about previous action in Iraq/Afghanistan but I really do think this is different.

If the people of the Middle East want a Muslim caliphate I'm sure they can achieve it through more peaceful means. I suspect though this is the desire of a violent minority.

Bombing them is likely to decrease our domestic security as they call upon their sleeping supporters in the UK to take action (which, incidentally, their leader actually did last Monday).

Our focus should be on internal security and tightening our borders against prospective terrorists from this conflict and from those to come.

I have a great deal of trouble believeing that ISIS comprises a bunch of idealised jihadis who have gone to the area to fight the Assad regime. There are too many of them. They also include the permanent Sunni communities who are disillushioned with the dire goverenance they have been subjected to by a Shia favouring govt in Iraq.

Yes, we i.e. Blair and Bush, caused this mess but there will never be peace between the various elements of Islam without very strong leadership. Bush snr understood that when he called off the rout of the Iraqi army after Mutla Ridge that wuld have deposed Saddam in Guf War 1.

As for morality, there are a lot of other players in this against whom immorality charges should be levelled - including oil exporting nation that encouraged the spread of this obscene form of Islam, Gulf states that sponsored ISIS, muslim states that are turning a blind eye to ISIS, countries that are buying the oil that we are told the ISI controlled territory is producing and which is making ISIS the most financial poweful terror group ever.

These are all issues that will not be resolved by a few daisy-cutters.

Several eminent army and ex army officers on news today have sadi there is absolutely nothing to be gained militarily from us joining the bombing it will not add anything and is literally pointless apart from a bit of a 'show willing' exercise.

Agree with wetaugust this will bolster the 'home' element of this and make the threat here very real very fast

Unfortunately the big Muslim powers in the region (Iran, Saudi) are more or less choosing to turn a blind eye. It's not really their problem, but insecurity in the region affects them too.

When will our tiny little island realise it is not a big super power. We need to follow the example of other small European countries and keep out of it.

Exactly Beccajoh Other local countries have capability but they are not interested in sorting this out. The Arab League needs to grow some and start dealing with the mess in a way that is acceptable to its members.

It was very revealing to listen to Henry Kissenger on Newnight last week being interviewed about his decades of diplomacy. When asked if there was anything he wishes he known earlier he said he wished he's known just how deep the distrust/hatred was between Sunni and Shia.

So, after weve dropped a few bombs - what next Are these murdering scu going to wave the whote flag - I doubt it. They are more likely to fight to the bitter end and you cannot kill everyone of them without boots on the ground - and that is titally unaccaptable.

But supposing they do surrender - what next? You are still left with Assad and a weak govenment in Irag and an increasingly powerful Kurdish community that still wants its own nation state.

In otherwords bombs resolve nothing.

Have you read this?
m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-29251329
We need to do something. Those poor children.

The whole region is a big mess. If we stay out of it, we're given reports of beheadings and women and children being buried alive and get asked to intervene. When we do, we're given reports of how many innocents our bombs have killed.

IME, I think people's view on this topic tends to be coloured by whether it is their husband/son being sent to do the bombing/possibly follow it up with a ground offensive.

I think you've hit on the problem here. "We are given reports of ...... ".

Yes we have been sent those gruesome execution videos but have all the other atrocities been verfied? Isn't that something we should be doing before we launch in as we did when we were convinced Iraq had WMD, and subsequently found out that they didn't. I have no idea whether the reports of women and children being burying alive are true. They may well be, but it's in the interests of any party that is being victimised to exagerate the sitaution to gain support and we need to ensure that these hideous events have taken place, as it's verifying events such as this that give is the legitmacy to intervene.

I fear we have learnt absolutely nothing from the past. The main lesson we are conveniently forgetting is Exit Strategy. You know, the sort of exit strategy that planned for us to leave Afghanisatan "without a bullet being fired" .

We're good at strating wars and meddling in other people's wars. We are very bad at extracting oursleves with a sustainable plan for Nation Building in place post-war.

Nelly
I don't have a husband and I don't have a son or any other realtive in the Forces so my views are not coloured by thise considerations.

I do have sons who, I am told by my Government, are less safe walking the streets of their home country this week than they were this time last year. And that nakes me very angry as security should start at home. I do not believe for one momemnt that our adventures in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, etc etc has made us, the UK citizens, one fraction of a percentage safer in our home countries, yet this was one of the weak excuses cobbled together to try to justify those military interventations. As we now know and the Govt had admitted, we are actually less safe post those inteventations and a damn site less safe abroad.

We still have no effective border controls at all in this country. I was particularly amused to see a large Border Patrol vessel anchored off the Scilly Isles this summer to enforce border controls, which seemed to consist of little more than boarding visiting cruise ships and causing a maritime search and rescue false alarm through their ineptitude.

We have the money - lets use it to introduce proper border controls so we know just who we are letting into theis country.

I really hate to say this but there is something not ringing true with the whole ISIS thing.

Even today oh look they found plans to bomb US and French subways, sorry I don't buy it. We were fed lies with Iraq and I feel we are being lied too again

Agree dodo its all too convenient

look they found plans to bomb US and French subways

This was claimed by the Iraqi PM but denied by the Whitehouse who said there is no evidence whatsoever.

Of course we need to take action against ISIS.
They make the Nazis and Pol Pot look like pussies.

I protested furiously against the Blair/Bush oil wars but this is NOT the same.

Failure to act is appeasement. And we have a pretty shitty track record with that approach.

I'm not keen on the bombing either. But something has to be done to stop this organisation. If it's ignoring with much wringing of hands it will get worse.

If they are doing what is reported, they wouldn't think twice about using human shields. Then who are we bombing?