To think we should not get involving in bombing Syria / Iraq

[WetAugust]

Enough is enough.

You cannot change an idealogy with bombs dropped from 10,000 feet.

We have no end game. Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya are still in a mess from our last efforts at 'helping'.

We have spent decades lending support, training etc to neighbouring oil rich States that are very well equipped with the latest in war machinery. Why have all that kit if they never intend to use it and are content to leave the fighting to other powers?

This is essentially a civil war driven by religious hatred and weak, cynical governemnets in Iraq and Syria.

If there really is this threat to us in the Uk let's spend some of this money we have so readily for war and beef up our entry and exit points to the country.

I don't want us to take part in any more wars in the Middle East

I agree with those saying that there isn't a 'right' answer.

Gulf War One was right because we responded to a plea for help from neighbours who were being invaded. I don't doubt the politicians had their own agenda, but we had no other moral choice then - just like in WWII.

Gulf War Two was just politics as far as I can tell. It never made any sense and we were lied to constantly.

For this one it is difficult to know what to do.

Just bombing is not going to solve it - I know that much. If we bombed in support of an opposing force supplied by other middle east countries that might be ok.

If we do anything at all I want us first to collect statements from leaders in the area that we can produce later. Something along the lines of "Yes we said we wanted the west to interfere and you can shoot me if I try to say later it was western imperialism". Because I am sick of us being the bad guys.

In a way I wish we could build a wall around the whole area and let them kill each other (I'm sure Allah will be glad of the extra company) but that's not going to work either is it.

It won't work because we will be involved anyway. We'll still have to deal with Muslims here blowing up things because we didn't help their side. We need the oil which could be unavailable if the whole region collapses, and because we don't want later on to have to fight some United Islamic State. If Isis wins and they get their act together and leave the 14th century behind they could be a real threat.

I don't think we can stand back and watch people being massacred.

Let them all kill each other???

But its ok to kill thousands of innocent people by starting wars in the Middle East !!

Will thousands of innocent people be killed? I genuinely don't know. I'd like to believe what they're saying about them using guided bombs/missiles on specific targets.

The scariest thing that nobody seems aware of or are mentioning if they are is Obama and Cameron have/are making their countries a dictatorship and nobody is stopping them.

In one foul swoop they have managed to break the American Constitution and British Government system by saying they would decide on air strikes and then inform government afterwards.
A bit too late to have a vote after they have done it.

Oh, forgot to say, the subject wasn't bombing but nuking them.
An mp stood up and asked DC if he had heard correctly that DC said he would use all manner of weapons available to him. I thought DC was going to backtrack but he didn't he just said yes.
Its DC and Obama we should be scared of.
There are reports already on social media fro Syria saying that much of this is made up and not true.

I was vehemently opposed to the Iraq war. It made me ashamed to be British. (I would happily hand Blair and Bush over to ISIS)
But we have to accept that some of this mess is of our making....and it all start from our fiddling in the 1940s - but the last Iraq war made it much worse. We do have a moral obligation.

Innocent civilians are suffering. Women are being oppressed, gang raped and murdered. They are being sold as slaves, forced in marriage or worse forced in 'jhadist' marriage -used as prostitutes for the Isis fighters. Being buried alive is perhaps one of the most humane things happening to them. They are watching their children be murdered, their daughters raped, kidnapped and forced into marriage. Mass executions, beheadings, crucifixion, torture.

As to the hostages - they were dead anyway -with or without these airstrikes.
Diplomatic solutions etc - I heard an experienced hostage negotiator interviewed. He said he had never experienced anything like it - it was absolutely impossible to negotiate with ISIS.
There will be civilian casualties but hopefully fewer than if an attempt was not made to halt ISIS' progress.
And as to going over to Syria - I believe that part of the bombing campaign is to move them away from the oil fields in Iraq and therefore deplete their income source.
I do think we should look at who is buying the oil and also who is arming them - but as I understand it as the well armed Iraqi troops retreated they left all their weapons behind they have good up to date weapons , don't need to worry about procuring arms ...

I would like to see Muslims from all over the world join together in strong protest against the Isis brand of Islam. I would like to see these demonstrations all over the news. It is all a little too quiet on this front - the real meaning of Islam is 'peace' so Muslims should not allow these people to drag their religion through the mud and reinforce this message with power to the world.

This, and yes, I do think we and as many countries as possible should join forces to bomb the bastards for what they are doing. It is too sickening to put into words what is going on.

Muslims and the rest of the world armies need to show zero tolerance for this bullshit.

Thing is odearme is that Muslims do believe this, I know many that do. ISIS is to Islam what the KKK is to Christianity.

Sadly, though, these narratives get very little air time in the mainstream media. Can you imagine a DMail headline that says "Most Muslims Peaceful" or the like? I really don't think the onus rests on Muslims in this case, rather the media to actually report on this

We need to start manning our border controls with the Army.
The idea of ineffectual civil servants who whinge about workload and meal breaks being our only line of defence against returning jihadists fills me with horror.

Unless we are prepared to commit ground troops as well, I simply don't see how aerial bombing is going to get rid of IS.

Many of the terrorists have already dispersed to hide among ordinary civilians.

The inevitable civilian collateral damage will simply play into the hands of the extremists and deflect attention away from IS's atrocities to those of the West.

As the OP has said we're fighting an ideology. One that will continue to exist even if we kill every single last one of the current crop of head choppers. Look at Afghanistan..vast swathes under Taliban control again.

This problem can only be defeated by Muslims themselves. The core texts and scriptures of Islam are the foundation of this terror. Only by actually acknowledging and addressing this honestly will progress be made.

We meddled in Ireland we had terrorist attacks
We meddled in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya and Syria we have terrorist attacks.
We should stop butting our nose in to other countries with the exception of Ireland all the other countries are worse off now than before......because of us.
When we go into Syria, and it will happen; Iran is next on the hit list. This is all part of a bigger picture, im sure of it.

dodo3 Don't add Ireland to that ridiculous list. All the countries you have mentioned have different, complex situations. If England hadn't 'meddled' with Ireland centuries ago, there wouldn't be a problem. But in our lifetimes, terrorist attacks were always going to happen, from either side, no matter what Britain did or did not do. Furthermore, as a resident in Northern Ireland, I am pleased to inform you that it would be a bloodbath here if Britain moved out. That's often the case with civil war. There are no easy answers.

What Britain is doing is exactly what the OP has prescribed. Killing the oil money. Not in the way she suggested, but the outcome is the same.

I agree with neiljames post on page 1.

If airstrikes are genuinely necessary, the other countries in the region have plenty of airpower.

However, I also think airstrikes are not the answer. You need to stop their funding, and stop their weapons source/s. You also need to send aid and education. In the end the solution has to come from within.