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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this is not my fault? (Long!)

84 replies

MissSusanStoHelit · 23/09/2014 11:53

I sold my business last month - it's basically a very expensive specialist piece of equipment which is small enough to fit in a large suitcase, so it was a mobile business for me and easy to sell.

I advertised on Gumtree UK on the advice of the manufacturer (who are UK based) and got quite a few responses - one in particular was very interested and we had an email chat about the service history, serial numbers etc and he seemed keen. He said he was a regular importer into the US of these machines second-hand, and was particularly interested in mine because it's the latest model with loads of extra features. A few days later he got in touch to say that his friend would like to buy it, but that she was in America so they would handle all the shipping details.

They arranged for a broker to come test the machine, pay the money and take it away to be packaged and Fedexed to the US. I wasn't really happy with sending to America but they were handling all the courier details so I agreed. With me so far?

Last night I get a call from the lady in America in a panic - the machine is stuck in Customs because it needs a "Medical Device Listing Number" in order to be released. Now, the technology is recently FDA approved and I was part of the blind panel that did the treatments for the 501K so I included all those details in the paperwork with the machine when I handed it over. The number they are looking for is a different one, issued by the manufacturer so I contacted them today to see if they could give it to me - and have opened up a huuuuge can of worms...

Apparently the machine was not supposed to be sold in the States because my particular machine has not been correctly labelled as per the FDA agreement (I bought it before the FDA approval came through). Also, there is an exclusivity agreement with their US distributor prohibiting sale of machines through any channel but theirs. So the machine has been illegally imported and will have to be returned to me. I had NO idea that this was the case, and am waiting for the Director to call me back to talk about next steps.

My AIBU is this - if the machine gets sent back, AIBU to think I'm not responsible? I feel it should be the guy who arranged the deal and his broker who tests and ships the machines on a regular basis - if he has been importing loads of these machines he should be aware of the restrictions on them. I did not advertise it for sale in the USA, I did not ship it to the USA so does that mean I bear responsibility for refunding the money if it's sent back? Is it up to them to get the correct paperwork and sort it out? Or should I have done the research before agreeing the sale myself?

Please help - it's a LOT of money we're talking about (over 12K) and I am stressing... Sad

OP posts:
Random1999 · 23/09/2014 11:56

You're both in the wrong, You should have checked and he should have made you aware.

Original poster
MissSusanStoHelit · 23/09/2014 11:57

I don't think he knew either... this is apparently the first time they've ever been asked for this particular number - he didn't even know what it was, I found out from Google!

OP posts:
Random1999 · 23/09/2014 11:59

If neither of you know you really should have checked but i guess its just one of those things isn't it? Can't do much about it now except try to help him sort out all valid paperwork and if not refund his money and re sell, uk only.

LittleprincessinGOLDrocks · 23/09/2014 12:00

Have you posted this in legal too?
I have no idea at all, sorry.
Though I would have thought it would be down to the people who actually shipped it not the seller in this case as you did not organise the shipping. Make it very clear when they call you back that they were adamant about sorting their own shipping, and have any copies of written proof of this to hand.
Hope it all works out ok OP.

londonrach · 23/09/2014 12:02

No idea. Try legal. Have you looked at gumtree rules. If coming back to you cant you resell to one of the others interested in the uk. Hope it works out.

Original poster
MissSusanStoHelit · 23/09/2014 12:02

Thanks everybody... I'm waiting for the manufacturer to call me back, see if they can help... I am so upset...

OP posts:
CrazyTypeOfIndifference · 23/09/2014 12:04

Have you received payment for it?

If so, as far as I can see it should be returned to the guy who actually bought and paid for it in the UK and what he does with it from there is his business. If he was buying it on behalf of a friend, or specifically to sell on in the US then the responsibility is on him, as the buyer to check import and customs rules for where he intends to sell it.

Paraibalove · 23/09/2014 12:05

It's not your fault no. I think you should have pressed for him to buy it on behalf of his friend, then should have made his arrangements from there, giving him sole responsibility once it left your possession. The way I see it, by the way you've done it, he's just a middle man with no responsibility in this.

had you done the former you would have kept your money, they would have had to swallow shipping costs and try to resell.

I don't know what would be right on this scenario but I have a feeling I'd be soft and refund/start again.

CrazyTypeOfIndifference · 23/09/2014 12:07

Generally, the onus is always on the buyer to check customs and stuff.

For instance, if you buy something on Ebay or through Paypal that's being imported, and due to restrictions on the product it's actually confiscated at customs and disposed of (I have had this happen to me) you're not covered by their guarantees, and can't claim a refund under their 'item not received' policies...because as far as they are concerned it's always the buyers job to check, with no responsibility on the seller in their Country other than posting it.

Original poster
MissSusanStoHelit · 23/09/2014 12:08

They paid half by wire transfer (from the lady's bank) and the tester gave me the other half in cash when it was collected. He signed a receipt I gave him for collection and payment... this is not looking good, is it...

OP posts:
CrazyTypeOfIndifference · 23/09/2014 12:11

He signed a receipt I gave him for collection and payment... this is not looking good, is it

I'd say that was looking very good. If you have a receipt for collection, that should be it. He collected it. Whether he went after collection and dumped it in the street, or posted it to Timbuktu isn't really your concern. If he was the one who posted it, it will be returned to him.

Original poster
MissSusanStoHelit · 23/09/2014 12:11

Thanks Crazy - that's what i thought about buyers too, that it was their responsibility particularly since, in this case, the guy buys LOADS of these! Apparently illegally! Oh dear...

OP posts:
moxon · 23/09/2014 12:13

Yeah, everyone should have checked. However, what crazytype said above re money exchanged = ownership, I should think.

Original poster
MissSusanStoHelit · 23/09/2014 12:13

I think they have put my details on the shipping form - I've just remembered I had a call from DHL asking if I would be shipping such high value items regularly, as I would qualify for special rates. I was confused about what he was talking about but then remembered the machine, explained it was a once off and that was that - so it seems they've put me down as the sender...
i have no paperwork for this though

OP posts:
CrazyTypeOfIndifference · 23/09/2014 12:13

If the woman in America has no legal contract with him, she was very silly.

If it was an international wire, it cannot be recalled from your bank. You've received payment. They collected it and had in their possession what you received money for.

Original poster
MissSusanStoHelit · 23/09/2014 12:14

no shipping invoices or tracking numbers or anything, I mean!

OP posts:
HighwayDragon · 23/09/2014 12:16

Not your problem, it's been collected and paid for it is therefore no longer your responsibility

Bailey101 · 23/09/2014 12:17

This is on them - if you advertised it for sale in the uk and sold it to a uk based broker then there's not much you could have done regarding export problems. I wouldn't even consider refunding any of the shippibg costs and I'd think long and hard about taking the goods back for a refund.

VeryStressedMum · 23/09/2014 12:18

They have bought and paid for this item. What they do with it after the sale is nothing to do with you.

Original poster
MissSusanStoHelit · 23/09/2014 12:18

they didn't pay me any shipping costs at all - just the money for the machine. The guy who collected it did a full inspection, signed my paperwork and took it away after giving me the balance in cash.

OP posts:
Bailey101 · 23/09/2014 12:20

Their problem then - the broker will have to sort it out with the buyer and resell the machine himself.

DarceyBustle · 23/09/2014 12:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
MissSusanStoHelit · 23/09/2014 12:21

I am feeling a little bit happier now - thank you!! Maybe the manufacturer can come up with some way to help them (I think the lady bought the machine for her personal use, rather than to rent or sell herself) so maybe there's a way she can get it. Should I step back and let them sort it out themselves, or carry on being the liaison with the manufacturer because I have a relationship with them?

OP posts:
Original poster
MissSusanStoHelit · 23/09/2014 12:22

What is an Incoterm?

OP posts:
Bailey101 · 23/09/2014 12:25

Step back and let them sort out their mess, the less involved you are the better :)