To think this is not my fault? (Long!)

[MissSusanStoHelit]

I sold my business last month - it's basically a very expensive specialist piece of equipment which is small enough to fit in a large suitcase, so it was a mobile business for me and easy to sell.

I advertised on Gumtree UK on the advice of the manufacturer (who are UK based) and got quite a few responses - one in particular was very interested and we had an email chat about the service history, serial numbers etc and he seemed keen. He said he was a regular importer into the US of these machines second-hand, and was particularly interested in mine because it's the latest model with loads of extra features. A few days later he got in touch to say that his friend would like to buy it, but that she was in America so they would handle all the shipping details.

They arranged for a broker to come test the machine, pay the money and take it away to be packaged and Fedexed to the US. I wasn't really happy with sending to America but they were handling all the courier details so I agreed. With me so far?

Last night I get a call from the lady in America in a panic - the machine is stuck in Customs because it needs a "Medical Device Listing Number" in order to be released. Now, the technology is recently FDA approved and I was part of the blind panel that did the treatments for the 501K so I included all those details in the paperwork with the machine when I handed it over. The number they are looking for is a different one, issued by the manufacturer so I contacted them today to see if they could give it to me - and have opened up a huuuuge can of worms...

Apparently the machine was not supposed to be sold in the States because my particular machine has not been correctly labelled as per the FDA agreement (I bought it before the FDA approval came through). Also, there is an exclusivity agreement with their US distributor prohibiting sale of machines through any channel but theirs. So the machine has been illegally imported and will have to be returned to me. I had NO idea that this was the case, and am waiting for the Director to call me back to talk about next steps.

My AIBU is this - if the machine gets sent back, AIBU to think I'm not responsible? I feel it should be the guy who arranged the deal and his broker who tests and ships the machines on a regular basis - if he has been importing loads of these machines he should be aware of the restrictions on them. I did not advertise it for sale in the USA, I did not ship it to the USA so does that mean I bear responsibility for refunding the money if it's sent back? Is it up to them to get the correct paperwork and sort it out? Or should I have done the research before agreeing the sale myself?

Please help - it's a LOT of money we're talking about (over 12K) and I am stressing...

Customs says they need three different numbers from the Customs Clearance certificate to tell me the charges - of course, I do not have this because I didn't ship the damn thing! Aaargh!

DM - that's irrelevant though as the OP is not the exporter.

Now - if the shipping paperwork says she is, that's fraud, isn't it? No one can be held responsible for what happens to something after they have sold it on. She should certainly not be listed on any official customs paperwork as the seller/exporter as she wasn't. That was the broker.

OP - did you tell customs that you didn't ship the item? What did they say?

You need to hand this on to the man you sold it to in this country. Doing any further detective work and calling customs etc just gets you further embroiled.

Write him a strongly worded letter advising what has happened and being clear that you consider this his responsibility as the person you sold it to. Moreover you are unhappy that he has put your address as the shipping address since you didn't send it. He needs advise customs regarding this and take on any responsibility and expense involved in getting it back.

Do you have paperwork to prove your sale to him? (sorry I have read the whole thread but I'm very tired so can't remember)

Also curious as to what it is!

Wibbly it's not irrelevant at all because OP is the one talking to customs and her details are on the form (which she consented to by the sounds of it). DH works in import/export and had a similarly scary experience a few years ago which was innocent and resolved eventually.

I just asked DH about this as he has experience of working with brokers and he said you need to dig out what your agreement was with the agent, the wording will be important.

DM - I did NOT consent to having my details on the customs form at all! As far as I was aware, my bit ended when the machine was inspected, paid for in full and taken away - the shipping was all handled by the local broker.

DM again - there was no agreement between the broker and ME at all - it was all handled between the buyer and the local guy.

Is it weird that this smells a bit scammy to me? Disengage with customs, it is not ypur problem anymore, if they try contacting you repeat 'I did not ship this item'

The transaction went like this -

Ad on Gumtree
email through Gumtree asking for more info
Email converstaion about serial numbers and service history
Skype conversation with buyer in US with final questions - sale agreed on that call
Bank details given over Skype
Wire transfer came through Wedsam, local guy given my address for collection
Machine collected, inspected and paid for Weds pm

That was supposed to be the last of it! There were no contracts, no agreements in writing.

Wibbly - yes, I told Customs, they said "Oh! he shouldn't have done that!"

Not massively helpful...

So how does this sound as the strongly worded email to the agent?

Dear XXX

We have a problem.

The machine which you collected and paid for does not have a "Medical Device Listing Number" as it is a pre-FDA approved machine. I am not sure why all the other machines you've imported did not need this. This means it is going to be returned to the UK, and attract extra customs and handling charges. As we agreed, all shipping was to handled by you and as the buyer's agent in the UK it is your responsibility to make sure you have all the necessary permits and information.

I want to be perfectly clear - I consider this your responsibility as I sold the machine to you - you inspected it, paid in full and took it away with you - you handled the shipping. Moreover I am very unhappy that you have put my address as the shipping address since I didn't send it. You need to advise customs regarding this and take on any responsibility and expense involved in getting it back. If you then wish to liaise with (Manufacturers) Office to send it back to XXX, please do so but my part of the transaction ended when you signed the receipt and left my property with the fully working machine.

Kind regards,

XXX

Sorry, my mistake I had misread an earlier post. He absolutely should not have put your details on the export form in that case. I would just leave it be, it is their issue, not yours. If you sold the machine to the UK based exporter without any further agreement then you should be fine. DH said if you need some specific advice on dealing with US Customs (although in light of what you said you probably don't need that) to direct message me and he can help.

Thank you DM... I hope I won't need to contact you but it's good to know I can if needed!

FWIW I think that email is really clear and fair.

I agree re the email being clear but to be honest, I don't know if I'd engage further. You've already got agreement from customs that the agent shouldnt have used your details on the paperwork so I'd be tempted to leave things. It's no longer your responsibility.

Agree re letter but might be worth checking with legal as id be careful about getting anymore involved. Am very worried that customs didnt take it more seriously re exporting under your name. What if it had been something illegal (bad illegal). Using your name and address without your agreement.

I've just got off the phone with the manufacturers... it turns out that the guy who set up the deal used to work for the US distributor, and is now illegally importing second hand machines which he sells on to doctors in the US without proper documentation or service plans... he is well known to the manufacturers and their US distributor is taking legal action against him!!

The directors at Head Office were lovely though, said I'd done nothing wrong and that I should just stay out of it as he'd lied to me and was a fraud... Great!! what on earth have I got myself caught up in??

Oh, dear! Well you have your money so you are fine. Feel bad for the poor woman on the other side who got ripped off but that's not your responsibility. What a dick though.

You weren't to know that this guy was a fraud. Thank goodness they knew about him though. At least you have the money and your end of the deal is done, this guy sounds like a right one!

Total, total dick... I feel so stupid... and very sorry for her. And guilty!! Which I shouldn't be! Shall I still send that email to the UK guy or just ignore from now on? The US buyer will be emailing and trying to skype tonight, I'm sure of it...

I think I should send a final email to the buyer - something like this -

I've spoken to the manufacturer, and they cannot give me the Medical Device Listing number as my machine predates the FDA approval. Perhaps Mike can advise you as he imports these all the time? As I'm sure you know, it is the shipper's responsibility to make sure the item will clear Customs and as Mike and Phil arranged the shipping I can be of no further assistance.

Good luck...

she's such a nice lady, I feel awful dropping her in it like this!

whoops, the names are in there! Thankfully they're quite common...

I don't think you should do anything further at all. If the American lady contacts you tell her to get in touch with her contact. You have sold the item and you have your money. Step away.

She seems nice, but maybe she is in on it too, you just never know. You've washed your hands of it, not your responsibility anymore