to ask what the most important factors actually are in helping children do well academically

[somewherewest]

According to a poster over on the AIBU thread about grammar schools several essays suggest that "the most deciding factor of any child's academic achievement at school is the educational background of its mother and/or the number of books in the family home".

Is parental education genuinely such a decisive factor? If it is how do we go about trying to promote an educational 'level playing field' for all children?

I completely agree with everyone who says that what's important is imbuing the DCs with a sense of hope and opportunity.

To the pp whose friends looked down on your holiday: it's worth remembering what you knew as a child - that 75% of people are witless sell-outs, and unfortunately just because they've started families and have a semblance of acceptability does not mean they have fundamentally changed.

I do not see us as disadvantaged and will work and do what I can with what I can to make sure they get the best start they can.

That is a very good point. I'll be honest, I am aware the DCs are disadvantaged. There is no denying it. BUT I'm working hard to make sure they don't feel it. It takes more planning financially and in terms of transport etc than it would if we had more money and I wasn't disabled. But they really appreciate the opportunities they get, I think, so yes we are working with what we've got and I think we do quite well considering that because we put a lot of effort in :)

I need to remind myself of it though, when I'm feeling down about our situation. For example the other day on the school run I overheard a yr2 child telling his dad that, at their first school swimming lesson, it was his friend's first ever time in a pool. His dad was incredulous and was ranting about how awful it was that his parents had never taken him. That made me a bit sad TBH as there were a couple of years when we couldn't - DH had a back injury and with my illness it's dangerous for me to be in the pool on my own let alone responsible for DCs - I don't want to be judged for my DCs missing out. I am very grateful that the school swimming programme exists (it was even paid for with pupil premium)!

Sorry I am waffling a lot this morning, I'll shut up now :o

For what it's worth I work in a top university and would say that students are 50% loaded and helped through by extraordinary opportunities (work experience in Borneo, parents' friends are powerful media/cultural figures, etc.). The other lot are mostly from very stable homes where they have been encouraged and there's a good work ethic, like regular homework times, proper meal times, little parental discord etc. and this has made them excel to be the best in their comprehensive (which can make you more eligible for a top university than being high up in a private school where everyone gets As). Of course there's the odd one from a more turbulent background that gets through.

However, I think we should be asking what would make our children happy as much as what would make them succeed academically.

Yup, I remember arriving at my Oxbridge college and everyone asking, "what school did you go to?" I was baffled why people were asking as I thought as we'd all come from different areas, how would they know about my grammar school....!!

Of course I soon realised that in the narrow public school world they're all aware of each others school through sporting events etc.

Good point party, thanks.

We are living in an area where the vast majority are much better off than us, it's quite a stark difference but I'm determined it won't affect DCs too much - so far DCs seem pretty immune to peer pressure and we haven't had any "but all my friends have..." (well apart from having a TV in their bedroom but I just laughed and said mummy and daddy don't have one either!) although I know that will get harder in time. TBH they are both off in their own little worlds anyway, they have their geeky interests and are very happy not giving a monkeys if their friends like the same stuff :)

However, I think we should be asking what would make our children happy as much as what would make them succeed academically.

THIS THIS A THOUSAND TIMES THIS

(And now I'm really shutting up)

Completely different question though. What would make my youngest happy is endless lego and horse riding and never having to write anything ever again. He'd probably regret it later in life though.

Clearly happiness/family stability and support and academic achievement will be linked in many cases though.

Our plan here is to spend as much time as we can with our children, supporting them, talking to them and making them feel loved and secure. Hopefully this assists with happiness and academic achievement which, whilst not the be all and end all, is increasingly important in our globally competitive world.

Interesting about the home educating point. Both DH and I earn six figures and I am the higher earner in our household but I would stop work immediately and homeschool if there was no better way to educate the DSs (although I suspect there would always be many better options than me as teacher!)

I think happiness is an important foundation to education. We picked primary school with that very much in mind. I think the two go together. A child needs to feel happy, safe and cared about in school in order to learn.

Happiness doesn't mean 'doing what you want all the time'.

I'm surprised that UK schoolchildren are "utterly miserable" though. Since when?

Happiness is very personal though.

What makes one of us happy, won't for another.

And some of us are just naturally that way. My mother always says I was a sunny baby.

I work at Oxbridge and, on paper, the student body ought to feel stressed and unhappy. In reality most are not.

Bit off topic, but you don't need to be wealthy to HE. DH and I both work full time, but took advantage of flexi working / home working and grandparents, plus paid for some tuition not to mention curriculum help and textbooks. However we weren't paying day to day school costs, bus fares, meals, school trips, uniform, extra equipment etc. and any trips we were able to do as a family taking advantage of cheaper travelling at weekends. We were also able to go on holiday out of season.

As mentioned elsewhere, you do need to know that it is possible though. And many people don't understand that.

I know what you are saying, WordFactory.

But I think that the following things are a foundation for happiness:-

• stability of circumstances (i.e. love and affection, enough sleep, healthy food, exercise)
• a sense of control over your life (for children that includes understanding their daily routine and why things need to be done a particular way, together with elements of choice wherever possible)
• having clear, personalised, goals at the right level (a stretch but not out of reach) and a sense of achievement in striving for them

A child with a home and school that give them these things is going to have a much better chance of enjoying learning and doing well than one who doesn't.

Word. I made a similar (if less eloquent observation) to your post of 11Am
on a thread I started, stating that there is no future for the Working Class in the modern day United Kingdom. That is the reason why unfortunate as it is ,it all starts with which schools your children go to and the social make up of the children at those schools. ( This is not a very popular view) will determine in the vast majority of cases your DCs future is decided by their school at 11 years of age.

Hakyult. Does not agree with much that I say, She knows I believe in selective education be that grammar or in highly specialised schools teaching high quality skills (it would still be selective, because kids would be chosen on the basis of aptitude and skills tests for those skills).

I have also said that bright children from families of either low Socio Economic status or of generational low academic Qualifications , should have the chance to go to fully residential schools offering either grammar or highly skilled training fully paid for by the Government. This again is a unpopular idea . The reason given for the unpopularity ,being it is not right to take children out of their environments. People still believe this, even though it would give these children a real chance to break the "Cycle" and achieve Social Mobility for themselves and future family members.

ReallyTired, don't understand what part of my post is rude. Do you think it's also untruthful, or just rude?

I agree that socialization is key, which is why I mentioned a home-schooling consortium.

There's not much data out there, but it seems that the little that there is points towards HE being superior. And you have to consider the fact that there are certainly a lot of crazy people doing HE for bad reasons, so the results are skewed.

I don't want to derail the thread, but I'm forever going back to this whenever I wind up on education threads because I am seriously considering this for my own children. I've actually checked out our local church hall. I have an idea that I would try to organize (for example) a chemistry class there.

I have also said that bright children from families of either low Socio Economic status or of generational low academic Qualifications , should have the chance to go to fully residential schools offering either grammar or highly skilled training fully paid for by the Government. This again is a unpopular idea . The reason given for the unpopularity ,being it is not right to take children out of their environments. People still believe this, even though it would give these children a real chance to break the "Cycle" and achieve Social Mobility for themselves and future family members.

You're playing a blinder with that one. Not only are you suggesting boarding schools as an option for the working classes/children with non-graduate parents, but you're making sure to get the term residential school in there.

I'm impressed.

"I have also said that bright children from families of either low Socio Economic status or of generational low academic Qualifications , should have the chance to go to fully residential schools offering either grammar or highly skilled training fully paid for by the Government. This again is a unpopular idea . The reason given for the unpopularity ,being it is not right to take children out of their environments. People still believe this, even though it would give these children a real chance to break the "Cycle" and achieve Social Mobility for themselves and future family members."

When this was done in the past it was a disaster. The children suffered sexual abuse and even today it is well known that children do not do well in local authority care. Children need love and the care system can not provide love.

Having low expectations about education is a different outlook on life. It could be argued that coaching a three year old to get them into a top London school is abuse. Somewhere there is a happy medium. Often an imperfect but loving parent is better than being in care.

Having said that there are plenty of top public schools which would like the state to pay for bright local authority care children to attend. I feel that such an experiment could work because the majority of children at a top public school would not be be troubled homes.

I still can't see how homeschooling is an option for the people around me. Rents around here are around £1600 pcm for a fairly unlovely 2 bed. If you are not in social housing and the only income is from one low earner, then both parents need to go out to work.

"
As I see it, this isn't an option for people who have limited intelligence, or are really scraping by, or have children with special needs."

I felt it was rude to suggest that people who send their children to an OFSTED inadequate school are stupid or are dirt poor. To put it politely home education is variable in standard and there is very little monitoring of home educated families to check that their children are making progress.

Maybe your child is having an outstanding home education being home educated, but I believe that an OFSTED inadequate school does a better job of home educating my daughter than I would do. I have a degree so I am not uneducated either.

I think that a good education shouldn't have to be broad, focus on a set curriculum, with very restricted choices for GCSE's and A levels, gaining a well paid job/career just for money.

A good education prepares the child for what they want to do in life and doesn't restrict those choices.
So if your child wants to take A level Physics at 11 and are capable they should not be told to wait until they are 16+

Concerned

I can't speak for the majority but for us it was prioritising it as it was what dd wanted to do.
I am a sahm, have not worked since dc 23 years ago, we have a low income but low out goings.
Some people do continue to work and H.ed there are many on the H.ed boards who would be happy to explain how they achieve this.
I have heard that flexi hours, grand parents, child minders, working opposite shifts, tutors can all play their part in helping to enable.

Also, for most it is not the same as sitting down with children doing formal lessons, working from the nc, for the same amount of hour

We have hundreds, if not a couple of thousand books in our house. And DS will never bother Oxbridge, Mensa, or Mastermind

Happiness can come from achievement and not indulging yourself all the time of course and the things you might be taught in good schools like deferment of pleasure, that hours of music practice gives you rewards can help make a stable happy adult. Also doing a lot of sport (something the better schools do) makes you happy (beta endorphins) and a good healthy diet and lots of time outside. If we are discussing happiness a lot of what goes to cause that - high seratonin levels in the brains etc is the very simplest of lives - being outside moving, catching your own food, sun light, exercise and only whole foods. It is amusing that to return in a sense to the supposed poverty of the noble savage as it were is actually the root to happiness and that these days it might take a small fortune to buy the remote Pacific island I bought to indulge in this stuff or perhaps though just sending the children out to run in the park with no snacks, just tap water to drink and a meal of loads of veg (perhaps foraged locally) and a piece of fish.

Really Tired. You say one hand you would be worried about children being in "care" and potential misconduct , Duncroft E.T.C . The other point you make though is Public schools could fill a void and educate bright disadvantaged children .

QueenTilly. You are obviously taking the worst example's of the state taking children away (Poor Children sent to Australia , Aboriginal Children taken by the state and the story abut Native Canadians for your point). Why should it be the same in 2014 with all the protection and media scrutiny today. Children thrive in certain environments, they mimic their surroundings and the people within them .

A question: If you were a parent of a bright 11/12 Boy/Girl living in a Social Deprived area surrounded by Drug Gangs, Street crime Gun crime and a catchment school that sent more pupils to the criminal justice system than achieved 5 GCSE passes. What would you do?. You have two choices

1. The chance for your child to go to a brilliant academic school (with Proper care) that would probably get 80% of students in to higher education or in to highly valued and skilled careers .

1. Insist that you don't like selective or boarding schools and that your child liked his catchment school and had friends there.

"A question: If you were a parent of a bright 11/12 Boy/Girl living in a Social Deprived area surrounded by Drug Gangs, Street crime Gun crime and a catchment school that sent more pupils to the criminal justice system than achieved 5 GCSE passes. What would you do?. You have two choices"

There is no easy answer to that question. At the moment the parents have the option of applying to Christ Hospital School or a state boarding school. Or the parents can hope that their child does well with support from the family.

Infact schools in rough parts of London have some of the best results in the UK. Newham and Hackney both have a higher proportion of outstanding schools then wealthier parts of the UK.