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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To expect a flat that is habitable after shelling out £12k to move in

249 replies

orangefusion · 20/09/2014 22:20

I have posted this in legal but for traffic I am posting here too. I am so upset...

...I have just returned from dropping my son off at his first flat as a tennant- he is in his second year at uni having had halls last year. The flat was found by his friends while he was away over the summer and he did not see it until today.
The place is unibhabitable. There is six inches of damp above all the skirting boards, one bedroom is "being treated" the floor is soaking concrete, the whole place stinks of damp- the air is so humid that nothing will dry, it is insecure and the windows need to be open to breathe but it is a basement in New Cross- there are no bars or proper window locks so the windows have to be kept shut. The b***d landlord has taken 6 months rent off the boys, and a £2100 deposit. There was a dead rat in the bin which had clearly been a live rat when it climbed in. I had to leave him there but I wanted to bring him home again or check him into a hotel.
What rights have these poor kids got? The place is disgusting and I am at a loss to know how calling the agent is going to make any difference because they knew it was like this when they let it. They will fob me off with platitudes but they do not have to live there.
I want to cry- he was so excited about living out of halls but this is just so awful.
Any legal bods out there who can suggest the best thing for me to do to help?

OP posts:
Quangle · 21/09/2014 21:46

If there is a gas cert (sounds unlikely) the agent should have a copy.

If this takes a while to sort out can you get a carbon monoxide detector in the flat just to be on the safe side? Or is DS just not going to move in at all?

YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually · 21/09/2014 21:59

Hopefully the housing officer at the council will take the required action, not having a gas certificate cbe a criminal offence so this is usually the first question they ask.

Absolutely no one should be renting hovels like this in this day and age and this in no way excuses the flat, but paying six months rent up front without viewing is extremely risky, not just because the property could be a bag of shit, but if the landlord was in financial trouble and the flat was repossessed, all sorts of reasons. If six months have to be paid, and sometimes this is unavoidable), it should only ever be to an ARLA registered agent.

The general public need to be clued up until compulsory licensing for landlords/agents comes in, no one else will protect your interests in the meantime.

Laquitar · 21/09/2014 22:00

I don't find your comment odd Quangle.

I do agree with everybody that it is discusting that they can rent places like this and at this price! But there is some responsibility with OP's son and the others too. They didnt have a gun over their heads to sign the papers. You view a flat, you don't like it, you walk away. And they should sort out the mess too now and not only their parents.
Basically they took 12K from their parents and they gave it to the first Estate Agent. They had the right to view the flat and they did. And they liked it!?
I do think that they have to learn some lessons.

Original poster
orangefusion · 21/09/2014 22:19

Not helpful laquitar. We've been through the hindsight bit already. Ta

OP posts:
Laquitar · 21/09/2014 22:30

I knew you will say 'not helpful' ,

You did have a lot of helpful advice from the others. I do feel for you and i would be angry at my son if he had played with my hard earnt money. I would be more angry with him than the landlord, he didnt put a gun over his head.

AnotherStitchInTime · 21/09/2014 22:43

They should have been given a copy of the gas cert in time for moving in. Our LL got fined a lot of money in court for not having one in place after HSE investigated.

FabulousFudge · 21/09/2014 22:51

Goodness - it sounds awful and so stressful. This guy gives landlords a bad name. I hope you get it sorted.

PhaedraIsMyName · 22/09/2014 00:14

I am not sure it if it falls into the category of an HMO but I sure as hell will find out tomorrow when I call Lewisham Council

I'm fairly sure 3 or more tenants need an HMO licence in England. It definitely does in Scotland unless 2 of the 3 are in the same "family" which is widely defined.

3 single men are not "family" ; if 2 of them are a couple they are "family" so you would have 3 people in 2 families , not an HMO.

However as this is 3 tenants in 3 bedrooms that would not apply.

There must be a gas safety certificate.

OddFodd · 22/09/2014 09:05

Laquitar - we all should be protected from landlords like this. No one should be able to charge money for a place which is unsuitable for human occupation.

It's attitudes like yours which allows the unscrupulous to exploit the unwary.

orange - it counts as an HMO because there are 3 or more separate 'households' living there. The rules are more stringent I believe.

Hope you manage to sort it out asap - I've lived in some shitholes in my time but they were palaces compared to that

writtenguarantee · 22/09/2014 09:23

I do agree with everybody that it is discusting that they can rent places like this and at this price! But there is some responsibility with OP's son and the others too. They didnt have a gun over their heads to sign the papers. You view a flat, you don't like it, you walk away. And they should sort out the mess too now and not only their parents.

yes, but there is some social trust being broken here. It does seem illegal what the landlord has done (if not, it should be). while you probably can't expect young men to be the brightest bulbs when renting, you should be able to expect and trust landlords to follow the law. Obviously, in hindsight, the parents should have done more, but really the state of the place is shocking.
it's simply not inhabitable.

I also went to uni (not here, america) and I rented a number of places and none of them looked remotely like that. And people's stories above about the heating not working!?!?!?! how did it come to this?

make sure you take lots of pictures for evidence. i'd start the proceedings to get the money back.

EllasMum16 · 22/09/2014 10:00

I have no advice unfortunately but I am going to follow this with interest! I can't imagine the landlord or estate agent has a leg to stand on if it came to a legal dispute with the flat in that state.

I've lived in rented flats quite a bit in the past and damp always seems to be an issue, although never on this scale :(

specialsubject · 22/09/2014 10:10

I answered in legal and can see that the OP has quoted my response.

there's no gas cert either? (unsurprised, I fear)

basically the LL/agent is a crook, as much as if he had broken into the OPs house and stolen 12k. The (slight) upside is that he isn't a competent crook, so as well as the place clearly not being fit for purpose he has definitely broken some laws. There's no arguing with that.

the HMO thing varies by area but if it is classed as one, even more legal ammo.

as I said - take no prisoners.

yes, it is a life lesson to the kids, but if you leave your doors open you still don't deserve to get burgled.

please keep us posted if you can, OP.

AWombWithoutAFoof · 22/09/2014 10:12

Is the concrete floor actually still setting? It looks wet in your photo.

That is really awful, I know young people are perhaps less fussy than us old gimmers, but he doesn't even have a carpet or proper flooring!

What are the other bedrooms like?

DrewOB · 22/09/2014 10:20

I had a similar (not to that extent though) issue when I was a student in Bath. We went to the student accomodation services and they dealt with the landlord for us, warning them that they would not be allowed to rent to student again if they didn't sort the mess out.
What do your son's housemates think? Surely someone has seen this flat before signing for it?

Laquitar · 22/09/2014 10:30

Eh? 'Attitudes like me allows the exploit'??

Are you fucking serious? Is it my fault that 3 middle class students were too lazy to view the flat before giving 12K?
Do you not understand the law of demand and supply? If idiots pay for something then prices go up

Of course we should be protected, everybody has agreed on that. But sadly we are not protected, the market is unregulated. Therefore we should have our eyes open a.d not encourage a product in the market by erm..... buying the product. Fucking funny accusing me of encouraging this.
And my advice -and another poster's- was for OP to suupport her son but to encourage him to make the phone calls, emails etc himself. OP doesnr want that and she wants to treat him like 5yr old. Fine. Getting angry with people who gave an advice is not fine, its pathetic.

Laquitar · 22/09/2014 10:30

Sorry this was to OddFodd

Mintyy · 22/09/2014 10:40

Extremely unpleasant victim blaming in your post there Laquitar. Now you have ramped it up to describing op's son and his friends as idiots.

How can you think that's acceptable?

OddFodd · 22/09/2014 10:47

But the market shouldn't be unregulated. It's housing. It should be a fundamental right in a civilised society.

I wasn't commenting on your advice on getting the OP's DS to sort things out - I was commenting (fairly obviously I would have thought) on saying it's a useful lesson. mintyy's right - it's victim blaming

Laquitar · 22/09/2014 10:50

No it is not acceptable.

There have been threads here from people in awful council flats with dump and concrete floors and the answer is : well it is not too bad etc.
My heart breaks more for people who dont have choices. They live in bad housing and they dont have a choice.
The rich students had a choice. But they went holiday and they were lazy too view the flat.
I have some sympathy for the parents who paid the money but more sympathy for those who have no choices.

Laquitar · 22/09/2014 10:53

Of course it shouldnt be unregulated.
We all agreed on that. But unfortunetely it is.
And those who pay for something like this are encouraging it and push the prices up.

Quangle · 22/09/2014 11:11

OP I hope you come back and update us because I hope it gets sorted and I'd be really interested to know if the local authority really do enforce this stuff. I hope so but I know in my area (also London) enforcement activity has been slashed because it seems less frontline than some of the other services they have to provide.

YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually · 22/09/2014 11:48

Laquitar, I'm with you on the students taking some responsibility for sorting this mess out. They're over 18 and unfortunately got themselves (and ops money!) into this situation. There's no way in the world that flat can have been acceptable on the viewing.

I know the parents have paid the funds, but the students should be the ones contacting the council, writing the emails, and questions should be asked of the one chap who did the viewing. It's an expensive lesson to learn, but they're old enough to vote and get married, their mummys and daddys shouldn't be sorting this all out for them.

The market should be regulated but it isn't yet unfortunately and renting a property in this state is akin to paying 12k for a holiday to a crappy back street travel agent who is not an ATOL agent - and not looking at the brochure properly!

Laquitar · 22/09/2014 12:00

Thank you YesIDid thats exactly what i was trying to say!

At the age of 21 i took my landlord to the court. My parents were not even in uk. I ve done it myself without even spesking english, i stood at the court, gave statement, and i won the case. Iwas very proud. If i could fight my case in a 2nd language then im sure the 3 students can write few e-mails. I would encourage my son to take action himself.
Treating them like poor powerless boys doesnt seem right to me.

Nice username!

writtenguarantee · 22/09/2014 12:13

There's no way in the world that flat can have been acceptable on the viewing.

Depends on what they were told. A flat can look like that and the landlord promise that it will be in tip top shape when they arrived.

BomChickaMeowMeow · 22/09/2014 12:19

Report to student accommodation officer- I had similar problems years ago at a different university and had got the property off a list provided by the university.

Definitely the council also.

The Government really needs to crack down on scummy landlords though - people actually need to be sent to prison and properties compulsorily purchased for this sort of thing. Also there needs to be a cap on rents in London.