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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To expect a flat that is habitable after shelling out £12k to move in

249 replies

orangefusion · 20/09/2014 22:20

I have posted this in legal but for traffic I am posting here too. I am so upset...

...I have just returned from dropping my son off at his first flat as a tennant- he is in his second year at uni having had halls last year. The flat was found by his friends while he was away over the summer and he did not see it until today.
The place is unibhabitable. There is six inches of damp above all the skirting boards, one bedroom is "being treated" the floor is soaking concrete, the whole place stinks of damp- the air is so humid that nothing will dry, it is insecure and the windows need to be open to breathe but it is a basement in New Cross- there are no bars or proper window locks so the windows have to be kept shut. The b***d landlord has taken 6 months rent off the boys, and a £2100 deposit. There was a dead rat in the bin which had clearly been a live rat when it climbed in. I had to leave him there but I wanted to bring him home again or check him into a hotel.
What rights have these poor kids got? The place is disgusting and I am at a loss to know how calling the agent is going to make any difference because they knew it was like this when they let it. They will fob me off with platitudes but they do not have to live there.
I want to cry- he was so excited about living out of halls but this is just so awful.
Any legal bods out there who can suggest the best thing for me to do to help?

OP posts:
BookABooSue · 21/09/2014 13:56

I agree with Phaedra. The legal requirement is that the deposit is kept in a scheme but there is nothing at all that says the payment can't be transferred from the LL's account into the deposit scheme. As long as the tenants are given all the necessary information about which deposit scheme is protecting their deposit then it is of no relevance whether it was transferred there from the LL's personal account or not.

A flat does have to be habitable and yy you should support your son and his friends to complain.

I'm more than a bit confused that your son and his friends made the decision to rent this property, paid lots of money and only now do you discover it's uninhabitable. I understand you're upset about it but are your son and his friends upset about it? If so, why did they get into this situation in the first place?

ATruthUniversallyAcknowledged · 21/09/2014 15:33

Sorry, back to the fire escape thing, would your son be able to get out of the window in his room in the event of a fire? (Is it low enough and big enough?) If not, I'm 99% sure that it isn't classed as a 'habitable' room and can't be let as a bedroom. If that's the case, I'd report to local council / planning office as well as uni etc. I would have thought Shelter could help with that.

PhaedraIsMyName · 21/09/2014 16:09

Phaedra, even if this happens, we would not be happy as tenants. There's no reason for the money to go to the landlord before it goes to the scheme. We have been landlords and as far as we were concerned, deposit going straight into the scheme was good practice. This is what our tenants expected too

That is a misunderstanding of how the schemes work. In Scotland the whole deposit must be placed in a scheme within 30 days of it being taken. As it happens my letting agency deduct their finder's fee and send me the balance, I make a payment of the whole amount into the scheme, usually on the day the keys are collected and clearly well within the time limit. It is completely irrelevant and none of the tenants' business whether it's paid to the scheme by me or the agency.

In England there's not an absolute requirement to place the actual cash. A landlord can retain the deposit and it is protected by one of the insurance based schemes. Provided of course he has joined one. He has to show it is protected but it can still be held by him. Scotland chose to make it only a system of placing the money within 30 days.

The situation here is bad enough without giving the OP incorrect info trying to make it worse.

TaliZorahVasNormandy · 21/09/2014 16:29

Is there even a kitchen or bathroom it that pit, heating, adequate fire exits?

x2boys · 21/09/2014 17:59

You didn't train to be a nurse did you Azquilith we had a guy try and break in with a knife itvwas a very strange set of circumstances ! I lived in a great big barn of a place with damp in the bathroom we couldn't get in the garden because it was so overgrown but this was nearly twenty years ago I thought things had changed?

fluffymouse · 21/09/2014 18:22

Wow that looks pretty shocking.

Lots of good advice given here.

I know they are students (so presumably 18/19 years old) but how did they view a place like this and think it was ok to live in it? You said your ds didn't see it but the other boys must have.

Quangle · 21/09/2014 18:32

Phaedra is right. In England deposits must be registered with a scheme but not necessarily held by a scheme. As I said, I hold my deposit in my account but it's registered with a scheme.

IamHelenaJustina · 21/09/2014 18:35

Awful flat OP. My parents were horrified by my student house but crikey - next to that it was a palace!

I certainly would advise him to keep in touch with the uni accommodation office. They do have rooms come vacant mid year. I had a very happy 6 months in one after my housemate went a bit nuts and we all decided to leave her and her awful boyfriend to it and move out.

totoro7ssidekick · 21/09/2014 18:47

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

orangefusion · 21/09/2014 19:10

Huge thanks to all of you who have been so helpful and sympathetic. It is a relief to know that IANBU.

For the full story:
My ds is at a Imperial Uni in london studying Chemistry. He lived in halls last year and the uni provides only one year in hall (this is normal for most UK unis). He was looking forward to living in a place with his friends free of the university rules.

He, being a typical 19 year old, thought it would be an easy thing to find somewhere and (again being a typical 19 year old) decided to spend the summer at festivals and on a road trip around the US (he funded it all himself from savings and odd jobs).

So off he went leaving his future housemates to find somewhere. I was pretty cross with him because I thought he had his priorities wrong and should have been looking for somewhere to live rather than at Glastonbury or in Wisconsin, but he thought he knew better.

His fellow housemates stayed here and found the place in New Cross. None of the parents had viewed (and in hindsight we should have gone to see it) and we all agreed that it would be better to pay rent upfront than be guarantors- our options were be guarantors for the whole lease or pay 6months rent (these appear to be the only options for students these days).

So this place was found and the paperwork was done, we parents paid 6 months rent (@£1560 pm for the whole place plus a deposit of £2100 and a lease fee of £350), so a total of more than £12K for the three boys to move in. Two of the three boys moved in last week and found it to be awful, it was dirty, filthy and damp- they called the agent who sent cleaners round who bleached the place and made it clean but still damp. They called the agent about the damp and the response was to send some builders in yesterday. As far as I can see the place has no Damp Proof Course and no amount of treating floors or walls wills sort this out and that it needs significant remedial works doing to it to make it habitable, none of which will make it safe- but this is a seperate matter.

The place is a basement flat in New Cross on a busy road, it has three "bedrooms", two of these rooms open onto the main road meaning that the windows cannot be open because they are both a security risk and pollution risk. The third bedroom has a window into a tiny yard.

There is a kitchen at the back with a sitting area and a table and chairs. The furniture is all quite new, IKEA standard stuff but the drawers and wardrobes were wet inside when they moved in.

I was the first "adult" (ie parent) to see the place when I drove my son up yesterday. I was told that a builder had been round that morning and had done "something" in the room in the picture but I could not tell if what had been done and what was to be done. All I could see was damp and smell damp and could barely breathe because the place was so full of humitidy.

I looked round and could see rising damp in all the rooms, there is a tide mark of 8 inches above all the skirting boards and mould on all the windows. There are no curtains or blinds for modesty or warmth or any kind of security locks on these windows or doors and they all open onto easily accessible areas on the street and the "garden". The only saving grace is that there are doors at the front and back and so fire egress is probably ok.

It would be grossly unfair of any of us to blame the one boy left here who did all the footwork to find the place. Of course with hindsight it is clear that I should have checked the place out before paying out. But I live in Bristol and the place is a 4 hour journey for me to get to. I work long hours and I could not get up there to look at it first.

So here we are, you have all been incredibly helpful and just what I needed after driving there and back yesterday. Today I have:
Talked to the other parents and a strong email has gone off to the landlord and agent. (same people as far as we can see).

Sent an email to Lewisham EHO to request they visit the place to assess if it habitable or not.

Taken solace from friends who have started to say "but we all lived in shitholes at uni... " who then saw the pictures and changed their tune to "this is appalling- what kind of bastard would expect anyone to live in that". Believe me, I have lived in hovels, squats and benders in my day but this for £12K takes the F***g biscuit.

The deposit- we have been told will go into one of the deposit schemes. They have 30 days to notify us of the scheme.

The agent is:
SE Developers of 4 Blandfield Road | Clapham South | London | SW12 8BG
And the landlord's address appears to be the same.

Whatever the reason for anyone to have moved into this place, it cannot be right that a landlord can take money for this. I know that we should have, could have done it all differently but we didn't, for this, as parents we were stupid. Howver this does not negate the requirement for a place to be habitable and for a landlord to take responsibility. Or does it?

Thanks again all of you for your suggestions and support- I can't tell you how much it has meant to me to know that in this case IABR and the landlord and agents are not.

Will keep you all posted.

OP posts:
VestaCurry · 21/09/2014 19:14

Phaedra, it's not a misunderstanding of how the scheme works and I am not giving the OP incorrect info. I am simply stating that having been tenants and landlords (still landlords) we prefer not to have deposits either pass through or be held in our accounts, even though these can be valid ways of managing deposits. This is because over the years, our potential tenants have not liked these options. They have tended to be people moving from other properties in London, or we have had a lot of Japanese, American and Canadian tenants who come here on contract for a period of time. That's generally our market and we stick to ways of managing the letting that they prefer.

Quangle · 21/09/2014 19:16

Bloody hell that's terrible - and so expensive.. though a good learning experience for the boys. I'm sure they'll take more care next year!

In the mean time hope the LA can intervene.

totoro7ssidekick · 21/09/2014 19:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

KatherinaMinola · 21/09/2014 19:40

Shocking. Glad you've called the Council - chase them up if they don't respond. Get student services involved too.

If Council does nothing, second Mintyy's suggestion of going to the press - name and shame. Twitter etc too.

arrrghhhhwaiting · 21/09/2014 19:56

ANd legally in England deposit should have been paid into an approved deposit protection scheme

www.gov.uk/deposit-protection-schemes-and-landlords/overview

orangefusion · 21/09/2014 19:57

Thanks toto, that is my view too, no-one should have to deal with this, no landlord should ever expect anyone to live in these conditions.

I will hold the press in reserve but believe me, I will do whatever it takes to sort this out :)

OP posts:
arrrghhhhwaiting · 21/09/2014 20:02

Sorry, just read you know about the deposit thing. Does the landlord own and rent the while house as flats. If so will be a hmo, and that part of the council can help as wellwww.lewisham.gov.uk/myservices/housing/landlords/Pages/houses-in-multiple-occupation.aspx

landrover · 21/09/2014 20:03

Smoke alarms? Any of those? xx

orangefusion · 21/09/2014 20:18

I saw smoke alarms on the ceilings when I was there yesterday.

I am not sure it if it falls into the category of an HMO but I sure as hell will find out tomorrow when I call Lewisham Council.

The landlord owns many properties and is probably known to Lewisham Council already. No doubt I shall find this out tomorrow.

OP posts:
totoro7ssidekick · 21/09/2014 20:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IamHelenaJustina · 21/09/2014 20:31

I agree that the issue is not really youthful inexperience except in not running a mile but the damp may not have been so obvious when they viewed. The issue is that landlord is taking the piss expecting anyone to pay 12 grand to live there.

orangefusion · 21/09/2014 20:45

I cross posted in Legal and I am posting the very helpful messages I got from lovely folk there here:

Also, Lewisham Council are supposed to be cracking down on rogue landlords. Its website says
"If you are a tenant renting privately and need help call the tenancy relations officer on 020 8314 8688 or 020 8314 8689.
Add message | Report | Message poster
PattyPenguin Sun 21-Sep-14 10:33:43

And it might be worth getting in touch with Lewisham's Environmental Health (residential) department
Tel: 020 8314 6420
Email: [email protected]
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specialsubject Sun 21-Sep-14 19:12:46

as a landlord - I HATE rogues like this, who are clearly preying on the uninformed. Despicable. Agents are unregulated and our government seems neither to notice or care.

get on to the council and shelter as well as the uni.

have they signed anything? Do they have the prescribed information for the deposit in its protection scheme? (yeah, right...) Because the landlord is legally obliged to protect the deposit and not doing so means his arse can be sued for 3 times its value.

take no prisoners.

OP posts:
Quangle · 21/09/2014 21:27

Finding comments like this odd, sanctimonious and patronising. Their being young and students is irrelevant. It shouldn't be possible for this situation to arise for anyone because landlords should not have the gall or immunity to rent such substandard flats. It's disgusting.

Nobody said it's ok - but there are rogue landlords and here is one, preying on the young or the vulnerable. I'm sure they won't let themselves fall victim to this again although no doubt others will. Not sure why my post merited such a narky reaction when everyone's been sympathetic and when even the OP said she wished her son had done some research over the summer. It of course should not happen but it has happened to these students and I'm guessing everyone is having to learn fast what their rights are.

YesIDidMeanToBeSoRudeActually · 21/09/2014 21:42

Were they given a gas safety certificate?

orangefusion · 21/09/2014 21:43

No gas cert as far as i know, there is also no inventory and they dont know which gas meter is theirs or where the electric meter is.

OP posts:
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